Bought a Ready lift.

Thanks for the info everyone.

 

Icon front and rear currently and I will tell you spacers didn't create any noticeable change in the way my truck drove down the road.

Educate me with your broad depth of knowledge. What part of the suspension geometry does a spacer change that a 5100 doesn't? Which part is getting extra stress or out of spec that won't exist in another type of lift?

 

HeadStrong for the win!!!!!

 

Justin, since I am picking up a little bit of sarcasm in your response above...I am going to be as polite as I can be. First off, I have been building, driving, racing, working on, and paying for the fabrication of off-road and racing vehicles for 20+ years. Everything from solid axle chopped Land Rovers to rock-crawling Land Cruisers all the way to a custom built M5 with a hand-built S38 racing engine. During that time I have learned a great deal about what works and what does not work. I have been and continue to learn something new almost every day. I read technical journals on all sorts of stuff just to get smarter...to gain more knowledge.

In regards to suspension geometries / data points, there are five major areas I focus on and that I think are important when lifting a vehicle for off-road endeavors:

1. Roll-Center Geometry;
2. Control Arm Geometry;
3. Steering Geometry;
4. Bushing Geometry; and
5. Motion Ratios.

Since you asked, "spacer" style lifts with everything else stock adversely impact items #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 to a great degree. Using your specific example, "spacer" style lifts impact motion ratios much more than a lift with Bilstein 5100s. Motion ratios (I'm going to assume that you don't know what they are...based on your response) are the ratios of one moving object to another. In your specific example wheel to shock motion ratios are impacted by spacer lifts to a greater degree than they would be with Bilstein 5100s.

As I said earlier all of these suspension geometries / data points impact how well your vehicle maintains contact with the road...in a straight line, in a turn, under braking, under acceleration, in off-camber environments, etc. All of these things also impact the deflection and stresses that the vehicle components are subjected to. If you'd like a list specific parts, please let me know. This is why people spend a great deal of money on a properly setup suspension. It's why people with a great deal of suspension knowledge aren't cheap when they work on your vehicle.

If you have any other questions, please let me know and I will do my best to assist.

I'm including some pictures of the front suspension on my Tacoma - I consider this a properly setup front suspension on an IFS truck - including custom valved shocks, custom valved bypass shocks, custom weight matched coil springs, upgraded bushings, upgraded control arms, gussets on key suspension components to help control deflection and stress, etc.

 

Ok, please focus and elaborate on the questions. I don't need to know where you live or what you had for breakfast.

You say: "wheel to shock motion ratios are impacted by spacer lifts to a greater degree than they would be with Bilstein 5100's."

Please explain how and why that is so bad for a vehicle. Please keep in mind that the 5100 is roughly 3/4" LONGER than the OEM shock on the Tacoma.

That seems to be the only difference you noted. All other geometry is the same between the 2 systems, correct? I'm well aware that they both affect steering geometry, but you implied that the spacer affected them in a negative way while other lifts do not.

We are not comparing a spacer lift to a bypass'd long travel race truck. Apples to apples, please. Nobody is saying the spacer lift is adding any sort of advantage or magical abilities. There is no question there.

^^^ This is what I inquired about.

 

Can I ask why you are not strapped up front (can't see straps, but maybe behind the tire in the pic)? Looks like poly bushings, typically with this type of set-up I'd run delrin. How are those poly bushing looking on the inside tabs, getting chewed up pretty good yet?

I don't think Justinihc was getting sarcastic, I honestly think he was trying to help explain things to those who are unfamiliar with spacers. Sure there are spacers out there that are too thick where bumping out and binding can be an issue, but there are spacers that are perfectly acceptable to with no negative impact.

The factors you brought up to prove your knowledge.... this didn't really help you out at all

 

Justin - Here's how wheel to shock motion is bad for your vehicle...let's say you hit a 2" object in the road and your wheel raises two inches and your shock only raises one inch vs. two inches. At that point the extra inch is not being "absorbed" by the shock...rather it is being transferred into the rest of the suspension components without dampening. That's bad for a vehicle.

The other geometries actually are not the same...the reason is that the dampening and the travel of the Bilstein 5100s is different than the dampening of a stock shock. Everything isn't staying static...everything is moving and shifting, unfortunately with a spacer lift "the lift" is static and there is no flex to it. Thus the geometries are changing while the vehicle is in motion and the Bilsteins are helping control them better than a "spacer".

Also, I did not state that the other lifts do not affect them in a negative way...I stated that the spacers affect them more adversely. Any lift is going to change something up - and not always for the better.

Anyway, as I stated just my $.02 and just for the record I had Qi'a oatmeal for breakfast with coffee...pretty tasty actually.

- Mark

 

Honestly, I haven't found the need for straps yet...if I do though...there are a lot of good options on the market, any good suggestions? The bushings are actually holding up really well, no damage thus far.

Unfortunately, with the internet, tone is not easily discernable. That's why I was trying to be as polite as I can be...as I always try to be.

Anyway, like I said I learn new stuff every day...

- Mark

 

Mark, just because there is a solid piece of material at the top of the strut assembly doesn't mean the strut assembly is also solid and non-functional. The shock still absorbs and reacts.

The control arms and steering are in the EXACT SAME POSITION(comparing lift-lift) so nothing outside of the strut assembly is different.

 

@fjfar80

I find it particularly interesting that you choose, on such a well-built (and thought out) setup, to retain the sway bar. I'm interested in hearing why you made this decision. Thanks.

 

I think you missed what I was saying. Do you agree that when you put a solid piece of material on top of the strut that the vehicle is lifting? If you do, do you also agree that the vehicle dynamics including the center of gravity of the vehicle have changed? If you agree with that do you also believe that deflection and stresses are being transferred to different parts of the vehicle than they were before the lift? Do you agree that the vehicle is still going to move back and forth and front to back during driving? Do you then agree that during those movements that the angles of the control arms and steering are going to change?

If you agree with that then you agree with what I was stating. The changes to the steering angles and the control arm angles are going to be different with spacers than they would with Bilstein 5100s when the vehicle is in motion. Thus, the suspension geometry is different...and that last sentence is not true.

- Mark

 

So the only "problem" is if you use too large of a spacer and DON'T space the bump stop you COULD bend or snap a shock.

 

Easy answer, because I do a lot of highway driving and highway safety is my number one concern. If I'm going off-road for an extended period of time, I can remove.

- Mark

 

Sir, the control arms and steering geometry ARE exactly the same between a 2" spacer lift and a 2" lift achieved via 5100 or aftermarket lift coil. That is FACT. I promise you.

Vehicle center of gravity will also be the EXACT SAME between the 2 lifts.

 

That's not the debate. Why get 5100's when there are even better options than that?

 

Justin, I am pretty confident that you're now just trying to instigate.

- Mark

 

Static yes, dynamic no...and fortunately, most Tacomas do not stay parked.

- Mark

 

Please elaborate on how and when the control arms and steering angles will be different between the 2 lifts.

 

I bid this thread farewell. Steve Wagner, if you have any questions feel free to PM me. You're in good hands with Justin.

- Mark

 

Thanks for proving my point. You can make statements on the internet all day long, but proving them is a different story.