Shackle Flip Questions

I've been looking at a shackle flip for a few days and have a lot of un-answered questions. I'm currently running Dakar leaf packs and wanting to do a BAMF 12" shock relocation.
Would that be a good idea with the Dakars since I believe they're longer than stock?
Also, would the relocation kit work or would I need to do the shackle flip and then the relocation to make sure the kit will work or if I need to fab up my own?
Finally, is a shackle flip really worth all this since I have an aftermarket leaf pack?

 

What are your goals? Why are you thinking of putting on a shackle flip?

I do know lots of the (relatively few total) folks who have done a shackle reversal are doing it with an aftermarket leaf pack such as OME Dakar or All Pro expedition.

 

My goal is a little more travel but I have read that while it improves droop it limites full up travel and puts a little more stress on the springs. That's why I'm curious if it is worth it and like you said not many have done such a thing.

 

I can't comment on shock relocation but I can share my experience with you. Back in 2009 I had Armor-Tech (When he was just a dude working out of his driveway) make some modifications to my Armorology rear bumper. He mentioned he was developing a shackle flip kit, which appealed to me because I wheeled at the time. He sent me a prototype for like $50 and I installed them along with the stock shackles and All-Pro 3" lift standard leaf pack that I had on at the time.
The ride was awful, the stock shackles where way to short and didn't allow the leaf pack to flex up. I purchased Jeep XJ 3" lift shackles that where several inches longer and it now rides great. The set-up increased droop quite a bit, had to get longer shocks, should probably have limit straps but I don't wheel any more. My original goal was to maximize the travel potential of the stock axle without relocating the shocks.

A flip also increases up travel, and this is what AllPro has to say on the matter. "We Have Seen Were The Shackle Flip Can Over Extend The Springs And Cause Early Fatigue. If You Aren’t Already Running Some You Might Think About Extended Bump Stops."

For the record, I have no bump stops, which doesn't worry me because I have 6.5" of clearance between the frame and the U-Bolt top plate. I'm not worried about using all that travel on a trip to Lowes and I don't carry or tow heavy loads.

Bottom line, It's TOTALY worth in if you go all in, when you cut those stock hangers off and flip the shackles you are committing to replacing almost everything in the rear
Bumps,
Spring,
shackles,
shocks (and for max flex, relocating them)
Brake lines,

Even though I half assed it my truck rides and flexes better in the back then stock, and has 4.5 inches of lift.

 

a shackle flip will only increase uptravel if you gain lift by the shackle flip.

My buddy went with SOS concepts shackle flip and kept his stock shackle to retain his same lift height.... thus the spring does not flex any more than it did before during up travel. BUT it droops out way better now. He is considering going lift shackles to gain some lift height and up travel as with the wheelers super bumps n u bolt flip there isnt much uptravel to be had.

 

Guys thanks for the awsome feed back. Just want to clarify some stuff. I dont want any more lift. Trying to keep it sorta level and I'd have to crank the front up some more. Trying to keep some down travel. The purpose of the relocation will be to allow for maximum articulation. So would I be better off with just one of the other (shackle flip or relocation)?

 

Lot's of variables involved.

OP, call Armor Tech @ 608-348-5462 and discuss your questions with them directly. I'm sure they would be happy to help you.

 

Will do. Thanks man. You've been a big help.

 

Post back whatever you find out and what you decide.

 

Tell me how, if the placement of the axle relative to the frame does not change (lift height), and no changes are made to bump stop n where the bump stop strikes... how up travel is effected by how the end of the leaf is held..... it doesnt. The spring does not arc, nor does your up travel increase or decrease any more or less when the suspension is at full compression if your lift height is the same between a stock shackle setup and a flipped shackle if your lift height is the same plain and simple.

NOW. if you were to do a shackle flip, and use a LONGER shackle to gain lift, then YES, you would increase up travel (due to the lift), and also cause the spring to arch more (towards or possibly into negative arch).



FYI... OP. My buddy has 12in 2.0 body remote resi kings with the bamf relocation brackets.

He runs these with alpro standard packs (he had the dakars but they were a lil stiff for his liking). With the stock shackle setup and the 12in kings, he was not able to droop them fully out while flexing. With the shackle flip and STOCK shackles (read, no lift, no change in up travel, no extra arching of the springs) he can fully flex the rear now (about 3in extra droop at the shock)

 

I'm sure you know everything now that you have a buddy that did it Look, the bottom line is things do change when you flip the shackle. You're not just "flipping" it, the mounting position completely changes. How much it changes is dependent on the kit you buy and weather or not it is adjustable. In my experience the components I was running pre flip worked great, post lift they ran like shit. The geometry completely changed.

What I'm trying to express to the OP is if you're going to commit to cutting up the rear end you need to be willing to go all in, replacing whatever is necessary to make it work. And in doing that he should call and talk to people that know what the fuck they are talking about, not just sharing what they saw there friend do.

 

Called today and talked to Adam I think. He said it would increase droop by 2" with the stock shackle and increase lift by 3/4".He also said increasing the length of the Shackle will only increase lift and slight increase down travel but not anything to even note. He also said that most guys run an 11" shock with stock mounting. He didn't seem to know much about a shock relocation though.

 

So I think I'm going to go with the relocation of shock and shackle. I could put my springs into a good negative arch and what looked like an unsafe twist to me and still have about 3 or 4 " from springs to strike plate (no bump). So I'm thinking with a bump stop I could pull 14" shocks while still utilizing full spring travel.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2005-2016-archive-garage-premium-shackle-flip-lift-kit.403630/ this kit is bolt on if you plan on doing it yourself

 

Good luck fitting 14in shocks. You should get the shackle flip in and shock relocation, and measure collapsed shock lenghts before buying shocks. With the bamf shock relocation kit. 12in travel kings were pretty dam close to fully collapsed when bump was hitting and collapsed (this was on wheelers super bumps)

 

I was only going with the 14" to try and get the most travel. What shocks would you recommend going with? If I gain 2 inches of droop but then lose 2 inches of up travel it seems kinda counter productive ya know?

 

If I measured right and the planets align the 12" shocks and just the shock relocation would let me use the springs to their full potential safely (not severe negative arch or twist)

 

You are really going to have to get the shackle flip done, upper shock mount relocation done (leave the axle mount off for now). Get your bumpstops in place with w/e style you wish to run, then measure, your collapsed height is going to be your limiting factor for shock size depending on where you mount the lower shock mount, problem is you cant twist them down on the axle too far as the shock shaft n body has to clear the bracket and axle. FYI instructions on the bamf kit have the lower shock mounts at a 90* to the axle if i remember correctly, not clocked up or down from parallel to the ground. You MIGHT be able to fit a 14in stroke shock with a relocation bracket, but i dont think i have seen anything longer than a 12in stroke without going into the bed.

 

12" stroke is what you are after for the most travel without severely limiting your uptravel to keep from using your shocks as bumpstops. 12"s.

 

I just don't want to do anythung I don't have to

I think I remember seeing that too about the BAMF kit. Does just the shock relocation use the full travel of the shocks (safely)?Because if I'm still using a 12" shock with the shackle flip too and still limited by the shock wouldn't it be unnecessary for the shackle flip too?