Trade in 3rd gen Limited for TRD-OR??? Should I...

Nah, I would agree with the first post. Its not secret that doctors used to and still very much DO get a terrific amount of money (In PCPs) for pushing prescription brands. Even with that money, docs are still just people. Some are business minded and do well, while about half aren't and they live in the red. Original post wasn't "ignorant" at all. You're taking it personal when really the guy was posting about a very non-specific group of doctors in the world. Caaaaalmate

 

As far as them not knowing how the world functions, I was too general there but I'll still own it. I could give you plenty of specific examples whether it be business related, financially, politically, or just simply current events. Many doctors are so single mindedly driven by their passion for healthcare that they participate little in the world around them. We have one doc friend that speaks regularly at resident programs coaching them on practical, personal financial management and what they can and can't do, much like the NBA/NFL have for "rookies", I think we can both agree that docs are smarter than your average NFL player. I am NOT calling them idiots and tried to point out in my original post that it is a symptom of what is REQUIRED to become a doctor.

Here's an article that was making the rounds when my wife started medical school in 2012. http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/index.htm

I do sell software into the healthcare industry and work with some of the largest medical groups in the country and after surveying the true costs (aside from the finances) of becoming a doctor my wife decided on another career and does medical device sales in the specific specialty she was being trained to practice. Very few people become doctors today for the money, like I said in my original post, it's a career of passion. Most of our friends are now in their early-mid 30's, have moved more times than they can count and of those that ever married, most are divorced. The cost to becoming a doctor is much higher than JUST the medical school loans.

I'll stand by my statement that most doctors don't know the first thing about running a business, they aren't taught it and they aren't given any exposure to it until they are out on their own, my comments were specifically related towards private practices that are physician run. I could give you story after story from physicians that I know that worked in private practice and are selling out to hospitals. Many of the practices that still appear to be "private" today are owned by hospitals, every doctor we know has sold to a hospital group or large clinical group. I coached a lacrosse player whose dad sold his independent practice to a group because he was broke and they agreed to take on a lot of his debt, worked for them for a few years, then tried another independent practice in another state which also failed and left him personally bankrupt, only to go back to working for the group that bought his original practice.

I think you and I both agree with the "being a doctor isn't what it used to be" statement.

As far as "big healthcare systems" don't get me started on those, with the exception of one system I work with (Mayo) your healthcare and treatment isn't decided by the Docs but by the hospital's non-healthcare related staff, lawyers, and insurance companies (which is what still attracts physicians to private practices). Most of my hospital customers spend more $$ evaluating technical pieces and legalities than the systems actually cost. I don't know anyone that works in healthcare on the physician or clinical side of things that likes it OTHER than the patients.

 

They hate us cause they ain't us!

 

It sounds like you have a very jaded view of the healthcare world.

While I'm sure based off of your experience what you are saying is true it isn't like that everywhere or with every physician. It's a lot different where my wife practices, but I know that my anecdotal evidence doesn't trump your anecdotal evidence. I'm just pointing out that you're making a lot of blanket statements from some anecdotal experience.

Yes, physicians are not economics majors and need to learn about how to manage their finances just like anyone else does when they start growing up and earning more money, and yes the healthcare system in the US is flawed with plenty of shortcomings. Yes, becoming a physician requires a person to make sacrifices and to want it more than anything else in life. None of that means that those friends you have who are physicians and failed at their own practice or marriages are valid examples of what all physicians lives and careers are like.

 

Where is the OP with some new photos of his 2016 TRD?

 

Hi Guys, Im the Original Poster checking back in and giving an update. Thank you for all the posts and such an entertaining thread!

First off "proctologist" isnt a term used in the medical field anymore. The proper term would be gastroenterologist who is a primarcy care internal medicine doctor (internist) who did an additional 3 years of fellowship training in GI. The other person who may be looking at your butt is a colorectal surgeon who typically has done a 5 year general surgical residency and an additional 1-2 year fellowship in surgery sepcializing in the colon or rectum (your butt if you will)

Once again not complaining as I know I am very blessed to be in the top 1% of income earners.

Plus, yes I get it nobody gives a rats ass about my expedatures or what vehicle I drive but some had asked and speculated so here it is...

As far as what 400K a year can be spent on I can say after taxes it comes out to be about 20K a month after taxes. You are correct that not all 400K is taxable for social security but you also forgot to add in the alternative minimum tax which can be a killer. Also keep in mind it took 3 years before the salary went from $220 starting out to 400K as a partner in the practice. At 40 Ive been out in practicwe for 10 years. Ill break it down for you my expendatures.

$3000 a month in college 529 plan savings (1k per kid per month) 1k per month from birth is how much it costs to send a child to college, ask any financial planner
$1500 a month approx pretax goes to 401K retirement plan

$2000 a month in parents support (24k a year not a lot for a couple to live off of)
$3000 a month to payback medical school loans of 300K (finally almost done paying it off)!
$6000 a month mortgage and property taxes in a fantastic school district
$3000 a month food/clothes/entertainment/random spending for a family of 5. $600 per month per person is a very conservative estimate.
$1000 a month daycare for youngest of 3 kids (older 2 now in public elementary school)

Grand total of 19.5K spent per month leaving yes about $500 a month left over. No doubt the mortgage payment and college funds build wealth so $500 it is very misleading to say thats all thats left at the end of the month!
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Now on to the interesting discuission. Tacomas! I emailed the dealer whom I purchased the Limited from. He said they can order me a blue TRD-OR auto for $500 over invoice but his estimate was 12 weeks min. I responded as to what he would give me for the trade and he didnt bother responding to me.

Emailed a second dealer who kept me in the dark for 8 weeks on my original TRD-OR 6mt offer that I ended up cancelling due to utter lack of communication and transparency. He did't respond as to what my trade in with 600 miles on the odometer is worth either. I have an email out to a 3rd but not holding my breath. The way to do it is probably to just wait a year for dealers to have all models on their lots or order a new one now with a $500 deposit, purchase it and work out the trade at that time when it comes in. I love cars and I'm an enthusiast but have a hard time making up my mind. But I'll most likley just keep the limited. Its a sweet ass truck and I can rent a jeep if I want to go bombing and bottoming out off road mad max style.

Yes at some point had considered a Jeep and a 4 runner and even a 2017 ridegeline. Could I save less / nothing for my kids education and/or cut my parents off and be able to buy a Porsche 911 turbo and that Mercedes AMG 6x6 which could put tacomas to shame off road? Or spend all the savings on prostitutes, blow and alcohol as some had suggested? Yes of course could be done but thats not where my priorities are. Like I said I have simple tastes and grew up poor.

 

I agree with everything you said (except the jaded part, I mostly feel sorry for the crap doctors have to deal with). I never intimated that it was ALL physicians that were incapable of running a business or dealing with "common sense" issues. Nor do I dislike physicians, we have a ton of friends who are physicians who would all say the same things that I've said, they all want to just practice medicine but the business gets in the way. They'd prefer to practice their own way but it isn't really economically feasible (or smart) in most cases...the original example I gave was failed physician owned private practices which makes up an increasingly smaller % of medical practices today so I was never talking about "all physicians lives and careers".

It will be even more difficult for the next generation. In 2012 the govt backed student loan laws changed and now, instead of interest being deferred until matriculation they start paying it immediately, and at a much higher rate than in the past (5%-8%). Couple that with falling income levels (or at least margins) and you have an entire generation of doctors that are caught between a rock and a hard place, it will cost them more than ever to become a doctor and they'll practice in an "Obamacare" world of falling reimbursement rates, etc that will lower their pay. We need serious healthcare reform and not just in the way most people consider. There's also a dramatic shortage of primary care physicians, I'm not sure about other states but Georgia will pay your student loans entirely if you practice general healthcare in a rural area for 10 years.

 

john, if you get a new truck would love some pics. congrats on all your hard work. have a happy new year, best of luck.

 

Yea, like OP mentioned, 300k in medical school debt isn't unheard of ... so not hard to imagine that not many graduating med students want to go into primary care and earn $120k-150k/year. It takes incentives like the GA one (know of this as we are from TN, and have friends who went to practice in GA ...) to get people to consider going that route. My wife (OB/GYN) has zero interest in dealing with her own practice, so she sticks with working at one of the top ranked medical universities. It's hard to talk to our parents/grandparents about these problems because they practiced in a much different world than today's, and they have been really out of touch with the way things have gone ... I know, first world problems.

The change to student loans wasn't all bad. They do allow income-based payments so at a resident-level paycheck you aren't paying $1000's each month, and a lot of other loans (e.g. loans through the University) are often still deferrable until after residency.

I think the hard part a lot of physicians have is to not let Keeping-up-with-the-Jones' effect take hold and end up with mortgages and other things on top of the large debt.

 

So now you are going to start with the fancy schmanzy medical mumbo jumbo. All I know is the out of work guy under the bridge by my house said he was an Endocrinologist and could save me $$$$ on my colonoscopy.

Turned out everything looked fine but he did find some little green army men that I had apperently ingested in my youth.

Anyway, hope you enjoy your limited Doc and holler anytime we can help with your questions.

 

Yeah, I figured it was something like this. I have to admit, it's quite depressing. The good news is that once you're done with student loan debt, you'll have $3k extra per month.

 

I'm sure the author regrets creating this thread more than buying the wrong trim level.

 

Can we get back to discussing rear diffs locking when trac is turned off?

 

same here. congrats on all the hard work and enjoy what you want. Best of luck and if you do change and go get it please post pics.

 

All your doing is turning off the traction control which lets you spin both tires in low traction situation.[/QUOTE]


There.

 

Middle class American opinion here, but for what it's worth I say buy what YOU want. I didn't buy an off-road edition cause I know I will never willingly need to go rock crawling. I did buy one with 4x4 and tow stuff cause I do hunt and pull quads. But in the end you work, do what makes you smile bud.