Canada BS Thread

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...round-in-pipeline-debate-back-east-hbert.html

 

If I lived in the lower mainland I would be demanding the new pipeline go through. The old one supply's a very large percentage of refined products to the area and if it goes down or blows a major leak without the other one in we will have to start transporting these products through the mountains by rail....not a good idea we have seen in the not so recent past.

 

Too bad most people in the lower mainland don't give even a second of thought as to where the fuel comes from or how it gets to them. They think it'll just always be there for their Prius or AMG no matter how hard they protest pipelines, hormones, or whatever suits their fashionable protest of the week needs.

 

well I guess we can't have an adult discussion after all

and the tripling of the existing line is not for domestic consumption

 

Fashionable protesting is a real epidemic now. People are sensationalized for or against topics based on mass media sources and the opinions of their social group without looking into the truth themselves. Not everyone has the education or even the desire to learn about what they are protesting and the science behind it before they run around naked in the streets rambling on about it.

 

It will be when the old one is decommissioned in the future.

We wouldn't want anyone "freezing in the dark"

 

People who have known nothing but urban life don't typically understand agriculture or the oil patch as well as they believe they do. I'm not white washing everyone but educating people on the truth rather than the perception and getting them to make their own decision rather than a group one is really difficult.

 

I guess its like flatlanders not understanding why people on the coast won't accept the consequences of an oil spill in the oceans here " for the good of Canadian jobs " without adequate remediation strategies or how about even a look at an unredacted report on how Kinder Morgan plans to mitigate or clean up an oil spill of Bitumen

 

I think you fail to grasp that most of the opposition to the Trans Mountain has to do with increased tanker traffic and chances of an oil spill in the ocean more than the actual pipeline on shore

 

I'm going to stipulate that my degree and education might let me understand that a lot better than you think. Risk versus reward is the argument in that case and it's different for someone living in the oil field versus someone who lives near the bay. I wasn't trying to go there. I was talking more about the topic Roughneckin mentioned. The fact that some people don't make the connection between price, availability, and the product because they get to caught up in sensationalism.

 

So Oz what level of economic impact is worth risking a spill?

 

thats just the point isn't it , the direct benefits will all go to oil companies in Alberta ( with a broader tax benefit to the Fed coffers ) while all the risk is with us here

 

So none for you. Well then there was no worth while discussion here at all.

 

I'm glad we all live on one country and not 10 regions that don't give a fuck about the greater good... oh wait

 

I'm not sensationalizing anything when I say that the NEB allowed Kinder Morgan to submit a redacted report on how they would mitigate and clean up an oil spill and what their recovery resources were

So how exactly can the people most likely to deal with the effects of an accident judge the risk versus benefit equation when the regulatory board in charge says that the company making the pipeline proposal doesn't have to tell us

This all comes back to lack of transparency in the NEB process

 

I'll just go drive my Prius to the protest now

 

The NEB is a joke. No doubt there. I wish Trudeau would just setup a division of the coast guard to handle spills in a very timely matter. Fund it with a tax on the line. Seems like a decent answer to me and I think we've discussed it before. I'm all for taking stewardship seriously and doing this right, but it has to get done so let's all work together to figure out a way to make that happen. We have the technology somewhere I'm sure to lower the risk to the point where everyone can live with the deal. Someone will always be unhappy, but that's the way everything is when 5 million people have an opinion on it and are directly affected in some way.

 

Kinda what BC proposed the then Feds do about 5 years ago

 

To bad politics doesn't seem to allow for easy solutions or negotiations.

 

FIFY

In the interests of future generations there are some problems with the oversight we rely on to ensure not just the dollar is respected in shipping natural resources. Need to fix one of the problem summarized in the article.

"In a damning report published this week federal environment commissioner Julie Gelfand found that the NEB fails to follow up on whether its conditions are met in the case of half the projects it oversees."

Also the amount of political interference, versus information collaboration/sharing and decision making based on science is disturbing. In the case of building 3x capacity to ship oil to & through the port of Vancouver, not willing to share information on where the pipeline route is being planned, or how they intend to minimize potential for leaks, or manage a cleanup when a leak occurs seems pretty basic stuff they should be able to answer. To not answer is insulting to the population.

Building pipelines that are less likely to leak than previous generations is not brain surgery. Neither is building better tankers, or improving the shipping process. All of that costs money, and the oil producers are reluctant to spend more than is necessary to maximize the ROI to their relatively small # of shareholders, (compared to the population that is impacted by the decisions) at the potential expense of our shared environment. Our focus on how these decisions are made is messed up. When will folks realize that taking care of our environment IS in the best interests of economy and our future generations?