Need Advice - New Truck Was Painted Prior to Sale

Ok, yes, I agree... if the only option is something "less" or something "more" than the truck he purchased, they should give him the "more" option, without a doubt. Here's another question... is the truck in question an '09? Wonder if there's any '09s left... he may end up getting a '10? Gosh, lots of wrinkles in all of this... but it sounds like the OP has this all well in hand. Hoping for the best, and in a timely manner!

 

That's laudable but just remember that they soaked you first (literally). I still think that they know they are cooked if this gets anywhere near litigation. Agreed that's not a reason to take them to the cleaners, but at the same time, it looks like there are only so many "reasonable" options that make you whole. If it so happens that you end up a little bit ahead of the game, so be it.

Sure you got some number of months of "enjoyment" out of the truck, but keep in mind that whole time, you were driving it down the primrose path. And you'd still be on that path had it not had the leak. The "timing" of your claim is no fault of your own; you followed up on it as soon as you where aware of the issue. By making all those mods to the truck, clearly you intended to keep it for a while, not nefariously waiting a month or so to "spring your trap" on a bid for a new vehicle.

In an alternative universe, two weeks ago your seat frame could've rusted through while driving on 495, causing you to lose control of the truck, have an accident and be seriously injured. As Peter Griffin would say, "Yea. How about that?"

 

atebit...you're 100% right. Thanks also for your previous reference to the Virginia Code that showed the 3% rule.

I've put all my documentation together this week. Photos, correspondence, everything. Its a 1/4" thick packet so I won't be able to post all of it but if there is anything in particular you guys are interested in seeing please let me know and I will scan it so I can post it. The photos are easy and I'll just need to upload them to my web host.

I'm not optimistic about receiving a response from Koons Tysons Toyota today. Here is a letter to Toyota Motor Sales USA. I'll be sending similar letters this afternoon or tomorrow morning to the VA Attorney General's office, Virginia Office of Consumer Affairs, and the BBB. The Office of Consumer Affairs also has a service where they get you in contact with a lawyer that can handle your case and give you 30min of consultation for $35. All of these will be my next steps.

If it goes to litigation I don't think I'll be in a cest la vie state of mind. I intend to keep records of any time taken off work, vehicle mileage associated with the claim, etc. How do you quantify or keep record of punitive damages? This entire week I've been restless, aggravated, and everything else that comes with feeling like I threw away $25K.

[Just to warn you, this is LONG]
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Friday, December 4, 2009​

SManZ

Address/Contact


Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
19001 South Western Ave
Dept WC11
Torrance, CA 90501

Subj: Request for Assistance – Consumer Complaint – Hurricane Damaged Vehicle Sale



Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to request the assistance of Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. in resolving an issue that I am having with a new vehicle purchase from Koons Tysons Toyota/Scion. In summary, I unknowingly purchased a vehicle that had been damaged during Hurricane Gustav in Gulfport, Mississippi because this damage was not disclosed to me prior to the sale. I have attached copies of documentation for this complaint and the documents are referenced by a bold circled letter in the upper right hand corner of each document.

On September 14, 2009 I purchased a new 2009 Toyota Tacoma from Koons Tysons Toyota (VIN 5TETU62N59Z598435) and was provided financing by Toyota Financial Services (Account XXXXXX). At the time of purchase I was told that this vehicle was a transfer from another dealership but no details on prior history were provided other than the Vehicle Inquiry Report (Attachment A) that indicates no vehicle damage.

On Wednesday, October 28, 2009 I washed this vehicle for the first time following the purchase and noticed that the headliner on the interior of the cab was wet above the rear window. I contacted the service department at Ourisman Fairfax Toyota to request warranty work for the water leak and an unrelated rear suspension issue. I brought the vehicle to their service department the morning of October 30th. I chose Ourisman Fairfax Toyota because they are the closest dealership to my office. Carroll Hyman, the service manager who handled my claim, notified me by phone the same day that the water leak at the roof could not be addressed as a warranty issue because the roof had been repainted. I told him that the vehicle was new and that I had not had any work done to it. He suggested that I take this vehicle back to the body shop or dealer that had done the repair work. Please see Attachment B for a copy of this service report.

Immediately after picking up the vehicle on October 30, I contacted Koons Tysons Toyota by phone and spoke with Juan Coleto, the sales manager that handled my purchase, and I informed him of Mr. Hyman’s assessment. Mr. Coleto immediately transferred me to Debra Latiolais, Customer Relations Manager. Ms. Latiolais said that she was unaware of any pre-sale damage to this vehicle and suggested that Mr. Hyman may have been mistaken in his assessment. She said that she would contact the originating dealer and provide me with any additional information. We also set up an appointment for Monday, November 2 to have this vehicle inspected at Koons Tysons for evidence of repair work..


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The afternoon of October 30th, Ms. Latiolais contacted me by phone and told me that the originating dealer was in Allen, Texas or Gulfport, Mississippi but was not sure which. She also said that while this vehicle was at the originating dealer a tree branch fell on the roof, a dent was fixed, and the roof was repainted. I expressed my dissatisfaction that this fact was not disclosed to me at the time of sale and said that had I known about the damage I would not have purchased this vehicle. I also expressed concerns about the reduction in resale value due to the roof repairs, and the durability of the paint job. She said that Koons Tysons Toyota was unaware of these repairs and that the vehicle could legally be sold as new because it had not been titled before. She also said that 25% of new vehicles are repaired in some manner before sale. I was not satisfied with these explanations and she asked what I would consider to be a satisfactory solution. I suggested that I be reimbursed the difference in Blue Book value between a new vehicle in ‘Excellent’ condition and a vehicle in ‘Good’ condition. Ms. Latiolais said that she would talk to the General Manager about my request and assured me that as the selling dealership they would fix the leak and pursue reimbursement for those repairs from the originating dealer. She cancelled our November 2 appointment and said it was unnecessary since the originating dealer confirmed Mr. Hyman’s report.

There was light rain in Virginia the weekend of October 31 to November 1. On November 1 I did a close inspection of the interior of this vehicle and took the picures in Attachment C. The pictures show the wet headliner, dried water spots, rust around fasteners and fittings, water stains on the driver’s side rear headrest, browning of the foam behind the rear child seat anchor covers, and water stains/rust spots under the rear seats and underseat storage trays.

On Monday, November 2, 2009 I followed up with a letter to Ms. Latiolais (Please see Attachment D). In this letter I requested a written response that included the name and address of the originating dealer, details regarding the damage and repairs done to the roof of the vehicle, and the date that Koons Tysons Toyota took possession of this vehicle. I also requested that Koons Tysons Toyota fix the water leak immediately.

On Tuesday, November 10, 2009, I brought this vehicle to the service department at Koons Tysons Toyota to have the leak fixed. I spoke with Georgia Starkey and Debra Latiolais (Customer Relations Managers) as well as Douglas Price (Service Manager). They all assured me that the leak would be fixed. I requested to Georgia Starkey and Douglas Price that a thorough inspection of the vehicle be done to check for any water related damage. I was concerned that the leak was present from the time roof repairs were made to the present time. I provided printed copies of the photographs that I took on November 1. While Koons Tysons Toyota had my vehicle, Debra Latiolais contacted me by phone and said that she would work with the General Manager to reimburse me for the cost of repairs and assured me that the previous damage was cosmetic in nature.

On Friday, November 13, 2009, I picked this vehicle up from Koons Tysons Toyota. I asked the service staff member to provide me a copy of the service report for the leak repairs. He could not find it in his computer and called Douglas Price, the service manager. Mr. Price met me and said that because this was not warranty work and could not be billed to Toyota Motor Corporation that he could not finish invoicing the job at this time. He mentioned that he would have to bill the repairs to the Sales Department somehow. He assured me that he would send me a written copy of the service report by mail once it was invoiced and that I would receive it by the following Tuesday (November 13, 2009). I never received this service report. We went over the repairs made to this vehicle and he said that the 3rd brake light and entire rear window was removed and resealed. He said that when the rear window was removed he found bent and rusted welds in the cab. He said that the impact to the roof must have been significant to cause the damage he found. He said that these welds were repaired and he also said that the interior was detailed. When I asked if there was any water related damage he said that the damage


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was cosmetic and he had found no water damage. After I drove the vehicle home I noticed that the water spots on the rear interior plastics were still present, indicating that the interior had not been detailed. Also, the rear driver’s side headrest with the water stain had simply been moved to the passenger side and vice versa. However, after repairs were made the roof no longer leaked.

Between November 13 and November 20, Ms. Latiolais contacted me by phone and said that the General Manager was not available for a few days and that I would need to wait for a response on the reimbursement. I also asked about the status of the response to my questions that I made on November 2. She said that she had the responses in hand and that I could expect them in the mail on Monday, November 23.

I contacted Ms. Latiolais the afternoon of November 23, because I still had not received her letter. She offered to fax them to my office and I received them the following morning on November 24. Her fax included the name and address of the originating dealer, the service report for the roof repairs totaling $1263.53, a dealer trade document, a hold-harmless agreement, and a copy of a check that was ready to be disbursed to me (Attachment E). She explained that the check would be mailed to me after she received a signed original copy of the hold-harmless agreement. I said that I had concerns about the fact that this vehicle was damaged during Hurricane Gustav and that I would need some time to consider the agreement. Ms. Latiolais said that she was confident that there would be no future problems with this vehicle. I asked if the optional extended warrantee offered to me at the time of sale could be provided to me to cover any issues arising from the damage. Ms. Latiolais clarified that neither the standard or extended warranty would cover any issues caused by hurricane related damages.

After some research I found that Allen Toyota is located approximately 1 mile from Mississippi’s Gulf Coast and that this area suffered extensive wind, tornado, and flood damage on September 1, 2008. The service report states that repairs were completed on November 14, 2008, indicating that there was a period of 74 days from the date of damage to the date repairs were completed. Further research educated me on the practice of ‘title washing’ to sell damaged vehicles as new in other states and provided me a list of common evidence of water damaged vehicles. One of the points made was to check for rust around fasteners and around metal surfaces on the interior of the vehicle where water would not normally be expected. The evening of November 24, I checked the interior of the vehicle and found severe rusting of the metal seat frame on both the front driver and passenger side seats. Please see photos of the damaged areas in Attachment F.

Following this discovery, I sent a letter to Ms. Latiolais on Wednesday, November 25 (Attachment G) explaining that I had found evidence of water damage contrary to being told by Ms. Latiolais and Douglas Price that the damage was cosmetic. I also stated that I would not sign the hold-harmless agreement and that I wanted a full refund or a satisfactory replacement vehicle within 15 days of their response. I required that I receive a response in writing by Friday, December 4, 2009. I spoke with Ms. Latiolais most recently on Tuesday, December 1 and she assured me that I would receive a written response by Friday, December 4 and that I would be contacted with details on replacing this vehicle with a similar one from their current inventory.

I am writing to you because Koons Tysons Toyota has failed to provide me this response. I have made a reasonable effort to resolve this issue with the selling dealer and I have been unable to do so within an acceptable timeframe. I am regrettably contacting your offices for assistance. I am hopeful that Toyota Motor Sales USA will be able to work with Koons Tysons Toyota to provide me an acceptable solution.


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I chose a Toyota because of their outstanding record of reliability, good safety ratings, and their high resale value. Unfortunately, I do not have confidence in the reliability of this particular vehicle since there is evidence of water damage around electrical components under the seat. I have concerns about my future ownership of this vehicle since issues arising from water related damage is not covered under Toyota’s warrantee. I also have concerns with how this damage will affect the resale value since an automotive professional was able to immediately discern the repairs to the roof and also because I was able to find evidence of water damage, both of which seriously affect the value of this vehicle. I have learned this week that water damage to electrical components can prevent the reliable deployment of the seat mounted airbags and I have concerns about this possibility.

As stated in my November 25 letter to Ms. Latiolais, I do not want to keep this vehicle. The true condition of this vehicle was not disclosed to me prior to sale. Ms. Latiolais has claimed verbally, but never in writing, that Koons Tysons Toyota was unaware of the damages incurred to this vehicle prior to their taking delivery of it. I am not overly interested in determining where the fault lies between Allen Toyota and Koons Tysons Toyota. My issue is that the condition of a new vehicle, sold under the Toyota brand, was misrepresented to me and consumer protection laws have been broken. The cost of repairs that were disclosed to me after the sale is approximately 4.6% of the MSRP. This percentage does not include an evaluation of the rust damages found on November 24, nor does it include any damages that have not yet been made apparent. The failure to disclose damages exceeding 3% of the vehicle’s MSRP was a violation of Virginia Code § 46.2-1571, Paragraph E. My desire is to come to a quick resolution so that I can do what I had originally intended; to enjoy and use a new truck.

I would consider an acceptable solution to be either of the following;

• Accepting a return of this vehicle and providing a complete refund consisting of the following;
  • A full refund of the cash down payment including compounded interest, calculated from September 14, 2009 up to the date of refund disbursement
  • Payoff and release of all obligations to the loan through Toyota Financial Services.
  • A refund of all interest paid on the loan through Toyota Financial Services, calculated from September 14, 2009 up to the date that the latest payment was made.
    

OR

• Providing a satisfactory replacement vehicle at no additional cost that is at a minimum the same configuration as the vehicle I purchased. A satisfactory replacement vehicle would be a new, never damaged, 2009 or 2010 Toyota Tacoma with the following features and options;
  • V6 Access Cab only
  • Prerunner 4x2 or 4x4 with Off-Road or Sport Package
  • 6-speed manual transmission only
  • Tow-package
  • AM/FM/CD w/ 7-speakers
  • Exterior color Silver Streak or Magnetic Grey only

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Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions regarding this issue. I look forward to a quick and hassle-free resolution. I request that I be contacted by Friday, December 11, 2009 to confirm that this issue is being processed, and that I receive a written response by Friday, December 18, 2009 with Toyota Motor Sales’ intentions and timetable to resolution. Direct contact information to the Toyota Motor Sales representative that will be handling this issue would also be greatly appreciated.



Thank you in advance for your time and response,
Sincerely,





Summary of Attachments

·Attachment A – Vehicle Inquiry Report, provided by Juan Coleto on September 14, 2009 during vehicle sale negotiations. 3 pages.

·Attachment B – Service Report completed by Carroll Hyman, Service manager at Ourisman Fairfax Toyota indicating leaking roof was caused by roof repairs and was not a warrantee covered issue. 2 pages.

·Attachment C – Photos taken November 1, 2009 showing wet headliner, dried water spots, rust around fasteners and fittings, water stains on the driver’s side rear headrest, browning of the foam behind the rear child seat anchor covers, and water stains/rust spots under the rear seats and underseat storage trays. 14 pages

·Attachment D – November 2, 2009 letter to Debra Latiolais requesting leak repairs and vehicle damage and repair history. Return receipt included. 2 pages

·Attachment E – Fax received from Debra Latiolais on November 24, 2009 with the name and address of the originating dealer, the service report for the roof repairs totaling $1263.53, a dealer trade document, a hold-harmless agreement, and a copy of a check that was ready to be disbursed to me. 5 pages.

·Attachment F – Photos taken November 24 showing rust under driver and passenger side front seats. 4 pages.

·Attachment G – November 25, 2009 letter to Debra Latiolais requesting refund or replacement. Return receipt included. 3 pages.

 

Damn this sucks, I hope everything works out for you....Any chance we can see the pics of the rust(Att F)...

 

smanz, Well written. Clear and concise. I had my own go aound with TMS. I wish you the best of luck.

BTW... you should cc that whole thing to Koons when you send it to TMS.

 

Blanco, here's a link to the rust photos;
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...w-truck-painted-prior-sale-4.html#post1150932

Thanks Crusher - thats a good idea. Maybe it will get them in gear to do something so they can report that is has already been taken care of when Toyota contacts them. How did TMS treat you? Do they always support the dealer or are they open minded?

 

Very well written letter, I will be keeping tabs on this thread since I hope to see a good resolution. I wish you the best with this.

This truly does suck.

 

you need to start a list of people that will plege never to buy another toyota unless this is resolved. you can sign me up. If toyota will allow this kind of practice then i do not want to deal with them.

 

Yep.. there's a website where you can create an online petition.. I would suggest for the OP to do that and we can all go sign it...

 

I used to Work for Chrysler FI in Tyson Corner & Koons was a VERY VERY Dishonest Dealer back then & Apparently NOTHING has changed. The dealer is supposed to let you know if the car had ANY paint work done on it B4 you buy it. But sence it was Transfer the dealer in TX did not let them know??? Call Toyota at 1-800-331-4331 & see what they can do. Yes you might have to get an ATTORNEY. As far as the Price goes WHO cares what you got the truck for it a new truck!! So when the MGR at Koons told you that its has NOTHING to do the Truck having damage on it...Also if the Truck is Financed by Toyota you need to let them know & make sure the Atty send them a copy of the letter as well. I know it Sucks BIG Time. But unless you can prove that Koons knew about the Damage its the dealers fault in TX. But also your relationship is with Koons. Ourisman Toyota used to be one of my Best Toyota stores to deal with. The CARFAX is worth less do not waist time or money. They only know if the Truck is registered & there was an insurance claim done. Good luck let me know what the out come is. I used to live in Centerville as well....Bob

 

Once again an extremely well written, detailed letter!! Good luck and you know your TW family is behind you!!

 

Outstanding letter. We're all here for you.

 

Wow, I wish all the best on this one. I am 100% sure the knew what they had and what they sold you from the start. They would have never offered the money and required you to sign the agreement they wanted if it wasnt the case.

I would still make Toyota aware of all this in the end. Chances are if they did it to you, they have or will do it to others. Koons had a party the day you drove that truck off the lot. They made bank on it, I know they did. I bet they paid a salvage fee for the truck, and the other dealer wrote it off as a loss, so they lost nothing.

 

Subscribed. Good luck, man!

 

Thanks everyone for your support and replies!

ywen, dman, right now Toyota Motor Sales has not had a chance to fix this yet. I haven't written off Toyota yet but I am definitely not a fan of Koons and would never buy from them again. If they are truly ignorant of the fact that this was a damaged vehicle then they are still negligent for accepting a transfer and selling it without giving it even the most cursory inspection.

Bob, I would definitely purchase from Ourisman. My g/f bought her tC there and was treated very well. Their service department was really the key in getting this claim started. If it wasn't for them I'd be riding around ignorant of the condition of the truck.

I think I will call Toyota this afternoon, let them know what is going on, and reference the case number they give me on the letter that I will send to them.

Do you all think the deadlines I've set in my letter are too soon? I've asked for confirmation that this is being worked on by 12/11 and a written response by 12/18 with a solution and timetable. I read on one legal site that I should be giving them 30-45 days. I didn't want to wait that long to wrap this up. I guess it makes no difference - I'm on board for the ride now, however long that is.

 

Wow dude, sorry to hear you're going thru this. I almost bought a re-painted 2008 DC longbed from Frank Smith Toyota back in July 09. I actually drove it home and just needed my wife to sign the final contract and it would be mine. While in the garage my brother-in law who has done body work in the past looked it over very carefully and called me over to the back door/ driver side up high next to the back window, found over spray on the black window cover/(seal). We looked at the doors allot closer and found more over spray, and while under the vehicle he noticed that I did'nt even have a spare. Mined you this was a "certified" vehicle.
Long story short took out the trash from my garage and got my "new" truck in Dallas!!
***Hang them from the highest tree*** we are behind you the road will be long but stick to your guns. You have plenty of proof!!!
Keep us posted, Good Luck!!!!!!!!

 

looks like a very good report. and you have every right to not give them a lot of time because you are driving a potentially unsafe vehicle until this is resolved.

the dealer should have no problem handling this. they probably loose $5,000 in the deal which is chump change for them. they should have set you up with a rental, then ordered you a new one to your specs.

if you do decide to start that petition, ill sign it for sure

 

No letter from Koons Tysons Toyota this afternoon. I tried several times to get through to the Customer Relations Manager and the General Manager without luck.

I just got off the phone with Toyota Motor Sales. I've come to understand that helpful impressions don't mean helpful intent, but I'm still hopeful that TMS will help me get this fixed right without litigation. The representative was helpful, sympathetic, apologetic, and actually listened to me. I was given a case number and she said that I should put the case number on the package I send to them. In the meantime, she said that once a case is generated the dealer must contact me within 1 to 3 business days.

 

I hope they get you a new tacoma.

I would have probably lawyered up.

In my line of work, I see a lot of flood vehicles, and yours is definatley a flood vehicle. It will never be the same. Water will get into everything and the repairs are endless. I always dissuade anyone who thinks about keeping a flood vehicle after I total it.

At the same time, the only thing they really owe you is a new truck, which is what you paid and have been paying for.

I really hope this turns out ok.

 

Should I send this and a copy of the package to Koons Tysons Toyota or would it be better to just let Toyota Motor Sales take it from here? Also I'm second guessing whether I should get the consumer protection agencies involved yet. I guess the customer service reps at Toyota are supposed to make me feel like something will get done...should I give them a chance first?

-Thanks!

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Friday, December 4, 2009​

SManZ
Contact Info


Koons Tysons Toyota/Scion
Attn: Jack Ballinghoff, General Manager
8610 Leesburg Pike
Vienna, VA 22182


Dear Mr. Ballinghoff,

I am writing to you to request your assistance in resolving an ongoing issue that I am having with a vehicle purchase from Koons Tysons Toyota. I have been in contact with Debra Latiolais, Customer Relations Manager. Ms. Latiolais assured me that I would receive a written response by December 4, on this issue. I did not receive this response and I have contacted Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. by phone this evening and will be sending them the attached package. They have assigned me a case number and they have confidence that we will be able to reach a resolution.

The attached package includes a thorough summary of the issue with the 2009 Toyota Tacoma that I purchased from your dealership. On September 14, 2009 I purchased a vehicle that was damaged by Hurricane Gustav and I seek a full refund or a satisfactory new and undamaged replacement vehicle.

I am hopeful that Toyota Motor Sales USA, Inc. and Koons Tysons Toyota will correct this issue and make me whole. Since I first contacted your dealership about this issue on October 30, I have been seeking a quick resolution with a minimum of hassle for all involved. However, this is my final attempt in resolving this issue independently before I must escalate the claim.


Sincerely,