Buzzy Vibration at certain RPM's..read before buying!

Interesting read....on page 2, it says...


2 - The vibration between 20 and 45/50 on light accel is probably flex lockup shudder. Thats the "torque converter" issue. In reality it can be torque converter caused, but more often its caused by moisture contamination of the world standard trans fluid. The moisture causes the torque converter clutch to slip and grab when the computer is in flex lockup mode. IIRC swapping out the trans and torque converter and flushing the cooler is usually warranted, although if you catch it quickly enough before the clutches are damaged you might get by with just a very thorough fluid flush / exchange. There is actually a quick and dirty way to diagnose this. If you unplug the stop light switch and short the 2 larger terminals in the connector together (turns on the brake lights and makes the truck thing you are braking without actually applying the brakes) it disables torque converter lockup. If the vibration goes away, that is indeed your culprit.

on page 3, it says...

Here is a thought I had a similar problem on my 2000 tundra it had a resonating vibration at 1800 to 2200 rpm when i investigated it I found that there was a exhaust hanger right under the drivers floor board that was transferring harmonic vibration to the drivers floor. You could try temporarily pulling the rubber hanger off to see if it gets better.

 

S mode disables it as well.
http://www.searchautoparts.com/motorage/powertrain-pro/toyota-trouble

 

So is the workaround againt flex lockup, to stay in 2k+ rpm?

 

Sounds like newer (2012) Camry's have it too...

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/3...hudders-judders-what-do-they-feel-like-3.html

 

Has anyone tried to unplug the TC lockup solenoid? http://community.cartalk.com/discus...pens-if-i-remove-the-wire-to-the-tcc-solenoid

 

I just put some miles on my new '16 Sport SB. Fort Collins to Rapid City and back. I found that I had some hi-freq vibration in the steering wheel, only, at certain speeds/headwind/grade combinations.
If I accelerated a bit for a few seconds, it went away. When I could feel it in the wheel, I couldn't feel it in the frame, stick, or anywhere else, and my wife could feel it at all in the passenger seat.
It wasn't anything you could hear, and it was as I said, in the wheel only. If it was a noise, I would describe it as a hum, it was that hi-freq. I only noticed it on up-grades, and only with a headwind.
I didn't notice it before about a week ago. I had 640 miles on the Taco when I started the trip, and have maybe 1200 miles on it now.
I can't imagine it is a rubber seal on a door, as it is nice and quiet in the cab. We don't notice it in the seat or anywhere else in the truck.

Any ideas?

 

BTW, I read that long write-up trashing the 2016 Tacoma. I can't disagree more. I moved to the Tacoma from a BMW X5. The Taco handles better, with less effort, and is quieter. If they think that the display in the dash is "hard to reach", I can only imagine picturing those memes with the Tyrannosaurus Rex and the stubby arms. My short-statured wife had to be shown that I actually read that, she had no trouble reaching anything at all in the Tacoma today. If they think that the door height is too low, and causing them to bump their sensitive little noggins, maybe they should evaluate something other than a full sized pickup first, before evaluating a mid-sized pickup. Sheesh, I have been in and out of a lot of vehicles, all within the past week, and I haven't noticed a problem. Unless wearing a cowboy hat. That's on me, not on the truck. What a bunch of precious snowflakes. God, I hate "journalists".
Oh, and as to the Chevy Colorado...I sat in one of those first, it was hard, cold, boring, and overpriced for a Yugo with a short bed. I got out and told the salesperson, "sorry, not for this price"! Didn't even drive it.

 

It isn't that or transmission related. It happens on the manual transmission versions too.

 

DISCLAIMER: This is an initial impression with about 2 hours and 100 miles total of time to get a feel for the exhaust.


Ok everyone, the Borla catback is installed and I just made my ~100 mile trip (outside temp 85-100+ degrees F). As soon as I got on the freeway, I jumped to 6th gear and made (mostly) the whole trip in it. RPM range on the trip from 1800-2600 RPM.

I won't leave anyone in suspense.....it didn't really fix the issue .

I will however note some differences with the Borla catback:

Steering Wheel:

The actual buzzing intensity at all ranges EXCEPT 2000 RPM (especially on an incline) seems to be smaller. It is not gone completely, but I would agree with the fact that it is noticeably, but perhaps some might feel marginally, better. If you hit 2000 RPM on an incline though, forget about it. But the intense buzzing only seems to last until 2100 or so and then starts to die off. Remember though, I did 95% of my driving in 6th gear on the freeway which at lower RPMs puts a high load on the engine. At the spots where I ended up in 4th or 5th and 2000 RPM it wasn't AS intense, but it is still there in a noticeable way. I would define 2000 RPM as the problem value though, there is no denying it at 2000 RPM in 6th gear on a flat or incline.

Floorboard:

Well, this didn't go as planned. The floorboard (most notably the center of the floorboard), I would say, vibrates a little more. This is especially true under hard acceleration where the exhaust note is the loudest (more on that below). 2500-3000 RPM and I feel it in the floor, so I give it a definite "did not help" the floor vibration.

Drone:

I emailed Borla specifically asking about noise and drone for this catback model. The response I got was "There is no drone. The exhaust is virtually silent under most cruising conditions..." Well, I wouldn't say it drones so bad that it is annoying, but I disagree with "virtually silent under most cruising conditions." If you define cruising as foot ever so slightly on the gas pedal, yes it is silent, but give it enough gas to actually keep up your speed and you hear some drone. The drone is very noticeable around 2000 RPM, which I don't think is a coincidence that it is aligns to the worse vibration RPM. Overall I say the drone is acceptable, but towards the upper end of my personal limit for a daily driver. Then again, it may be me. I noticed drone on the stock setup too.

Other Vibration:

Vibration levels are up overall under hard acceleration. I'm neutral on this. I feel it comes with the territory of installing a more aggressive exhaust.

The Borla:

The exhaust tone is nice. Around town especially where you are doing shorter burst/higher accelerations it sounds really good. It isn't TOO loud, but it is noticeably louder. It makes the truck "feel" more powerful. The catback provides a richer, deeper tone. Cabin exhaust noise is increased slightly though, but isn't annoying. I would say it is at a good level, any higher and it may have taken a bit of getting used to it. As I stated before, I do not agree that it is a drone-less setup, but it is not at the point of being annoying or unbearable.

I will try to get a sound clip/video up of the Borla and post a thread write-up on the catback this week. I need to have a phone call with Borla first though, how they respond to my situation will reflect how my review goes (spoiler alert: the catback caught the 3rd gen quality control bug). I don't want to dive into too many details until I see what they say about it, it was (hopefully) a one-off type of issue.

EDIT:

I spoke with Borla regarding the issue, the customer service was fantastic. The issue I had was that the catback comes in three separate pieces and then is clamped together (typical). However, one of the short pipes on the muffler was slightly out of round at the end so the forward most pipe in the set wouldn't fit into the muffler short pipe. I had to take it up to a muffler shop up the street so they could expand the pipe a bit (which they did in 30 seconds for free). However, expanding the pipe caused a small crack at the reliefs which close together when the pipe is clamped, which made me uncomfortable so I asked them to tack weld the cracks after I clamped the pipes together (the two cracks were maybe 3/16" long, cost $25 to weld). Borla was very concerned about my experience and said even though it works, and they wouldn't consider it a warranty void, it is completely unacceptable that it came in that condition. So even though I was able to still get the catback system installed fine, they insisted on sending me a brand new one free of charge. In my mind this negates the issue I had during the installation and I will still use my money to buy Borla products in the future and I will recommend them to others as well. Hassle free customer service which is nice to find these days.

Conclusion:

If you are looking to buy a catback, purely in hopes that it solves the vibration issue, I would recommend against it. I don't feel the amount the vibration decreased is worth the $600. Yes it feels like it is less prevalent in the steering wheel, but it is still strong at 2000 RPM in 6th gear. Or I would wait until more data points come out on the Magnaflow exhaust or Flowmaster exhaust which has been rumored to fix/greatly reduce the issue. Note that the Borla uses the same pipe diameter as stock. I do not believe the Magnaflow one does, I believe that one is a bit bigger in diameter. It could affect it.

I will post more over the coming days/weeks as the exhaust breaks in.

 

Any feedback on the pedal vibration? The gas pedal is where many of us are feeling it too. I'm assuming no change? Great writeup btw.

 

I can have a better answer for that one tomorrow because I was wearing difference shoes today than I usually wear throughout the week. I did not really feel it in the gas pedal, but I could feel it on my heel through the floor. But it could be a shoes thing, I remember these shoes (which I don't wear as often) not transmitting as much vibration as my normal thin soled dress shoes that I usually wear throughout the week to and from work.

 

Appreciate the quick update buddy. Agreed with you on the material of the sole...makes a big difference. I noticed right after switching the boots I wore to ones with a Vibram sole, it totally eliminated the vibration feeling to my foot. Look forward to the update. As discussed before, I'm going to try the Magnaflow exhaust in the near future.

 

Thanks for the detailed summary. This will save others the time, money and frustration.

 

OK quick update. I decided since it is hot I'd make a beer run. I wore my dress shoes to see how it felt. To be honest, I don't really notice any abnormal vibration through the pedals. I without a doubt feel it in the floorboard, but the pedals seem very normal to me. There is a tiny bit of vibration, but I can't say it is anything more than another car/truck would have and it for sure isn't more than my old truck (nothing majorly wrong with it). I would say the pedals are normal. As for the floorboard, I bet with weather mats or something it would be greatly reduced too. I just have the thin carpet mats in there right now.

Also as a further update, I took a route that allows me to be at 4th gear in the 2000 RPM range and 3rd gear in the 2000 RPM range for enough time to gauge the vibration and I can say, confidently, that the vibration in 3rd and 4th gear at 2000-2500 RPM is significantly reduced. In fact, if I had not been intently looking for it, I don't believe I would have cared/noticed at the level it is at. The only place it feels a little abnormal is at the 12 o'clock position on the steering wheel. That seems to be where the vibration feels the worse. So it is noticeable at 12 o'clock and not really noticeable at all other positions. Before, it was very noticeable, almost a pulsing buzzing vibration for me in 4th gear at 2000-2400 RPM.

So I can definitely say there is a change. I look forward to hearing the Magnaflow update from you as well.

 

Yes, agreed. It did not 100% solve the problem, but it seems to have changed it for the better in certain situations. I bet it will still be changing as the exhaust breaks in, I plan to keep updating. Remember too, that impression was only after 2 hours on the highway, I'm sure after a week or two I will have a better feel for it. I just don't want to make everyone feel like it worked magic and be let down if they get a catback and still feel vibes, especially at the narrow 2000-2100 RPM band.

 

The vibration is felt, by most, when the engine is under (even slight) load. Sounds like you are feeling the same buzz most of us have.....

 

Thanks aero90 for your review and update. Much appreciated! Glad the vibration got reduced in general. Do you have any new or different conclusions now about what's causing the vibrations?

 

I drove it more today and paid attention to the RPM range and different gears. So:

Buzzy vibration status in STEERING WHEEL:

1st gear: Nothing
2nd gear: Barely anything, but it is hard to tell since I have that rumbling vibration at that range in 2nd gear (driveline angle issue or something that Toyota hasn't fully admitted to yet)
3rd gear: Very slight, not really an issue
4th gear: Also slight, today I took a slightly inclined route in 4th gear and let it drop to 2000-2100 RPM before hitting the gas and I can comfortably say the vibration was a lot less than before. It is not gone completely but it is more acceptable.
5th gear: 2000-2100 RPM small-low medium, but more noticeable if held steady at this range on a flat or incline. Give it a little more gas and the vibration drops to a small/maybe not noticeable if I haven't become so familiar with it type of level.
6th gear: 2000-2100 RPM under steady acceleration is medium-high buzzing (medium on flat, high on incline), but if I just give it more gas the vibration starts to fade away. Moves to smaller level outside of 2100-2200 RPM, minimal at 2300 RPM.

So I can say that I do notice the vibration has changed, but as I stated before it is not completely gone. If you look for it, you will notice it. This is especially true in 6th gear. One other thing to note is that the drone becomes louder in that RPM band so it doesn't help having a buzzing droning noise in the background, it becomes kind of a mental association issue. I really focused on discerning the two and I can say the buzzing in the steering wheel is less. I may be imagining it too, but it also seems that the vibration isn't as "buzzy." It is still "buzzy" but a little more "rumbly" at the same time. Hard to explain without feeling it.

I still stand by the fact that the buzzing in the floorboard has slightly increased under higher load, but pedal vibration levels i consider normal.

As for new or different conclusions about what is causing the vibration, it is hard to say. There are a couple reports of people with other exhaust systems saying their vibration is gone. So if that is true, then it could very well be a muffler resonance issue or exhaust system resonance issue. I can confidently say there was a change in my symptoms. But there needs to be more data points from others that replace their systems. At the end of the day though, it is either a resonance issue from a faulty component or a normal vibration not getting damped properly due to a manufacturing/production error (I say this because there are reports of stock vehicles that claim to not experience this buzzing AT ALL).

Still on Day 2, I give it a no for making ALL of my buzzing vibration range feel minimal. I give it a yes for decreasing the vibration in certain situations. I give the Borla a yes when purely talking about sound.

I am interested to see if it changes more as it settles in.

 

I've looked hard too. I keep digging through the good and bad post because I REALLY want a new Tacoma. I just saw a link to the "20 Vehicles to avoid in 2016". The 2016 Tacoma was number 7. I realize that a lot of guys are happy (for now) but when a company that has a reputation for building quality makes this list ,,,,, I think it is fair to say Toyoya S H I T the bed on this one, and it is half way through the year and they haven't stepped up to the plate and fixed the problems.

 

Check this post: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...-3rd-gen-today.399305/page-1217#post-12689580