king vs. icon vs. fox racing coilovers

He is where I get my sig from, maybe will influence the upcoming thousand+ dollar purchase-- haven't met the guy and he is influencing the 'ish out of me haha.

 

Right, pretty much all street preformance shocks are valves to be digressive. To be honest digressive doesn't really make any sense to put on an off road vehicle. If you look at what trophy trucks and unlimited buggies run, 100% of them are running bypass shocks and a hydraulic bump stop. A bypass shock essentially

 

Woops wasent finished lol. Give me a minute...

 

A bypass shock allows you to adjust the compression and rebound at many different points in the shock. And if you took any given racers set of shocks and put them on the dyno you would see that they are all tuned in a fashion to be progressive. Bypasses are ideal for tuning because they allow you to adjust the pregressiveness at different points in the shock on the fly.

 

hoping to get on some SoCal wheeling meets in the next few months, can hopefully get some good ride alongs with various setups-- what race setups run might not be my use-case- just weary of online discussion as the more I autocrossed, modded and mingled with that crowd, the more I learned what is popular vs. what works for me can be different or flat out wrong (marketing, end-users with no idea what actually works better etc), and a coilover's description and marketing can be totally misleading. I never got to the point of being able to effectively read a damper's dyno graph, just had to use seat of the pants 'dyno' equipment (butt) to find that brand X's coilover had X spring rate, Y type valving, and Brand Y had a "softer" Y spring rate and B type valving, yet brand X had far superior ride quality yet also great track manners. What the valving Gods do at the various brands is total voodoo to me, and many online reviews can be misleading- people's evaluation of NVH, feedback, effectiveness etc is all very relative.

 

I headed posts and read through this thread page by page-- I'm aiming towards the Kings, I think they will give me the ride I want. So onto question 2, why are the king rear shocks so SO much more than the competition?

I do not want to mix and match brands and valving, way to newb for that, so going extended travel Kings up front, I want to go with Kings in the rear too, but wow, they are way way more than Fox and Icon. If its because the shafts are that much better, or they are that much durable, and/or simply delivering the super smooth caddy/towncar on air ride suspension I'm aiming for, I don't mind paying more-- just want to make sure its better in some shape or form that the others, if simply that it will match how my fronts feel.

I want to drive over speed bumps like they are not there, I don't want to feel that stupid overpass bridge transition/rut, or that banana peel on the road. I want Mall Parking Lots to fear me.

 

Make sure your comparing apples to apples, king only makes 2.5" remote reservoir shocks for the taco. Other companies make a combination of 2.0" and internal floating piston shocks which end up being much cheaper. Also make sure your not comparing something with a compression adjuster to something without a compression adjuster.

For reference here is a set of kings and icons that are comparable:

http://iconvehicledynamics.com/shop...ma-vs-25-series-rr-rear-shocks-0-15-lift.html

http://downsouthmotorsports.com/i-4...-kit-for-2005-2014-toyota-tacoma-2wd-4wd.html

And a set of kings and foxes that are comparable with an adjuster: (its the set for $1199)

http://downsouthmotorsports.com/i-7...ster-for-2005-2014-toyota-tacoma-2wd-4wd.html

 

^^ Roger, yep the Kings are 2.5.

For reference I am a first gen and was looking at the various mid-travel options on downsouth's site
http://downsouthmotorsports.com/i-9...coma-build-your-own-mid-travel-package-1.html

To keep the valving in the same camp/manufacturer I'll have to pay the $$. Just to get this right, the only difference with King's 2.0 and 2.5 is oil volume and durability, but valving should be the same? I really want to bring the rear end into compliance, I have a Billy 5100 front, 5125 rear and really don't want that imbalance again (5125 are a bit more aggressive/meant for something heavier).

 

I don't agree with your theory of the internal physics of how shocks work. Stepping aside from their "comfort" factor, as that is ultimately subjective and situational, dampening is a measure of vector/pressure. A progressive vs. digressive shock can have matching dampening amounts even though they "feel" different. For some reason I keep seeing because a shock gets "progressively" stiffer it can apparently increase its amount of dampening force to match hits?

This is not necessarily better or worse... Or even true.

A shock is either going to dampen through the hit or be blown through. Ultimately you're reviewing a force curve which, when completely crushed by excessive force, is going to be rough because it's up to the bump stops/bypasses to hold it over anyway. Digressive vs. progressive shocks are just where the primary force is handled, the "total dampening force" should be assumed to be the same or you're already comparing apples to oranges. If that is the case, whether a shock slows abruptly at first or gradually doesn't matter, if it has enough dampening force to slow the hit it will slow the hit if it does not the shock will be blown through to the bump stops.

Whether the first half of the shock travel gets softer or harder the truck doesn't care. You're either going to smash through your shock travel or you're not, it may "feel" different, sure, but that doesn't mean better or worse. You're comparing a tried-true reputation-based brand like King to someone like Icon, a relative new-comer to the scene (who by the way does sponsor a race truck), people will go with what is popular because it's popular or they had experience, etc etc. That doesn't make it true OR best.

tl;dr too much "old guard" love for shocks without realizing at the end of the day it's a straw filled with oil and some gas designed to get squished.

 

I don't think king makes a 2.0" kit for the rear specifically for the Tacoma, only 2.5"

 

Well that's too bad because I don't really agree with anything your saying...
Let's start here: I never pointed out any specifics only the characteristics of what a progressive or digressive DAMPING curve looks like.(by the way it's damping, not dampening... Dampening is the act of making something wet...thanks google)
(side note#2: damping is not a measure of a vector/pressure, it is a coefficient that can be mathematically modeled as a force F= -cv with F being force(in newtons) c being the damping coefficient(in Newton-seconds per meter) and v being velocity(meters per second). Basically it's a force that is velocity dependent that acts against the direction of movement)

I'm not going to repeat my self on the characteristics of each. Go ahead and think what you want, but just because you already bought icons doesn't mean you should try to defend them with a nonsensical argument.

 

I put Fox, on per my friend that does this work. He mentioned Icons usually always leak and he even sees that when just opening up the box to install them.

 

hm

If your Google skills match your physics it makes sense why you'd resort to ad hominem by the end of your post. You can have your ball and go home with it if you'd like.

 

Well, by your logic, I think you should put a different shock on each corner of your truck, since in the end its all the same thing

 

Heated

 

Wow.

BTW Several folks around here have been blowing apart Fox 2.0 rear shocks. The cap comes right off spewing fluid everywhere. The rumor mill is pointing towards Fox slipping in quality. Whether they are or not I won't be going with the 2.0 rears as I had planned.

BTW I love my Radflo 2.0's up front that all the "experts" said I would hate. Yes, I have drove other Tacomas with Fox and Icon kits. In our lower speed conditions, ie there are few places offroad where you can get a truck about 30 kph here without destroying something, they seem to be able to handle the weight of my truck just fine and they feel much better than the Bili's or Boss kits. They also warm up a lot faster than reservoir kits when it's 5 c and we are winter/spring/fall wheeling in the mountains. That's a bonus, and I'm not feeling any fad off as the temps get higher. Max outdoor temp on the trail is usually around 20 c anyways and that probably has a lot to do with it.

 

Love them. They did mess up my order and put on the wrong springs though Toytec sent me the correct ones to fix it when I do a rebuild. The guy I know who rebuilds shocks has done radflos before and says they are simple to do.

 

I like how you use ad hominem to point out why I'm stupid for using an ad hominem...

 

That isn't what I said, nice strawman argument.