Colorado B.S. Thread

BLM said I could.

 

then what are you waiting for? Looking forward to the Fakebook backlash

 

That road will continue to be a point of contention between those saying it's unsafe and those supporting keeping it open. Seems like there is a fatal accident every year. I'm somewhat surprised more action hasn't been taken to try to shut it down.

What that trail has going for it is its fame and therefore a large number of offroaders supporting it. Take any other random FS road and it would have been shut down long ago. There's a few trails close to me that are on the chopping block, and the FS' argument for shutting them down is unjustifiable to say the least, but very few will fight for them. I had a civilized argument with a FS engineer last year when I ran the original, and also historic, Ellis Jeep Trail for the last time ever before it got rerouted.

If those are the only two options I would agree with you.

 

Unfortunately, on this end of the state, those are the options and usually, like I mentioned above, we don't get to choose. The San Juans are a special kind of tourist destination and as such they won't do permanent trail closures.
They did have Black Bear closed for a season though, a few years back, while they had heavy equipment up there "repairing " the road. So it does happen that they simply don't let them fall into complete disrepair.
Pretty sure the Kali thing is a fuck up though. I'm relying on you guys to post the drama here as it unfolds as I don't do Fakebook.

 

I knew there was a reason why I liked you!

 

Knew I was forgetting something. Yes, both days it was a topic.

And, this is what both of them said and did. Another point raised by both presenters is that most lenses focus beyond infinity [EDIT: modern, auto focus lenses], so simply cranking the ring around until it stops when manually focusing won't work. You have to do your homework to learn at what point in the focus ring rotation the focus is actually at infinity, and both talked of marking their lenses in some way to identify this, so that it could be repeated in the dark.

The last time I did any astrophotography was for Comet Hale-Bopp in 1997... and I've forgotten a few things. The courses are helping to bring back some knowledge.

The brand/manufacturer which stuck in my head for the intervalometer was Vello. Not sure if that's the one you forgot; I think he mentioned a couple brands. I have one bookmarked in Amazon which I researched a couple years ago, but I have failed to get off my butt and get out there at night... so as a motivator, I picked up a basic, wired shutter release as a starter. It's probably better to get out, figure out my needs before buying a piece of gear (as I could end up buying something not meeting my needs).

 

And today is Lance Keimig and astrophotography... that's a name I recall from my film days.

 

Urban wheeling like a boss

 

No locker?

 

Which is an interesting question, particularly the way you put it - 'leaving things as they are'. Where's the line between trail maintenance, improvement, and deterioration/disrepair?

I'm not familiar enough with the situation, trail, or anything else, nor do I own a heavy enough fireproof suit I'd go within a hundred miles of the specific incident discussion, but I did note it'd been thrown out there that the club created/modified the trails in the first place (as little as 10 years ago even?) and were 'restoring' some of it back to its 'original' level or whatever. And then there was counter that when it was done a 'built' rig was 33s or 35s and now it's 40s (if you build it, they will come, and it won't be yours anymore ). Now again, regardless of this specific instance, the question that raises to me from a management standpoint is how do you manage a trail? With regular maintenance that preserves the difficulty of when it was created? Let it deteriorate through use to a certain point (and who determines that) and then maintain that? Do no maintenance whatsoever, and just let it become increasingly difficult over time until it's flat-out impassable, then shut it down? What, or rather, when is 'the way things are'? When a slide covers a road, or a storm washes one out, do you fix it? Why not just leave it and say hey, now it's a harder road? I mean it's a much more natural (and rapid) increase in difficulty than the gradual deterioration of a trail due to use (dug-outs, widening, exposure of rocks, etc.). And I'm not even considering any 'environmental impact' here, just the trail itself and use thereof.

As an aside, interesting timing with this incident, to me anyway. There's a similar issue blowing up on 14er/climbing forum about someone who recently replaced a bolt on a route - same kinds of swearing and threats to person and to undo it, questions about was permission obtained, etc.

Squeaky mentioned Elephant Hill, and I'd heard about that. I was trying to think of other things beyond just regrading... like the erosion control mats used on Medano in some spots by the park service, or a somewhat common practice of putting concrete armor on certain stream and wash crossings. I know the first time I tried the lower Gemini Bridges trail I got stopped by a 2-3' 'step' boulder not too far in. Came back a few years later and it had been reburied. There was certainly no safety issue there, or even environmental aside from the more exposed it got, the deeper the lower side would eventually be dug out.

It seems like 'make it safe' and 'fix it' are synonymous with 'make it easy'. I don't think that's always the case. I do think there's a complicated relationship and balance between safety, ease/accessibility, challenge, and environmental impact. And that there's far too many people ready to pull out the pitchforks and brands instead of working on solutions.

Can't really say I blame them. I mean look at the personal threats just from this incident. If it or things like were specifically announced beforehand I can just imagine the fights or worse that would break out with people who showed up to protest. I mean, the concrete pour you did, if it were to be done again, today, with the kind of social media and just information dispersal of the internet in general, would you feel safe doing sanctioned work like that with it announced? To reiterate, I'm not saying this incident was sanctioned or anything, I'm just saying in general. I'm also not saying that closures or changes shouldn't be announced/open to public comment beforehand either. It's more about if it's going to be done, how and when. I'm sure we've all seen 'protest' after the fact of people undoing things, cutting gates or fences, removing barriers, etc.

BTW, which road did you find yesterday? You've got me curious. I wonder if it was covered by an order or in the travel plan. I do know it's the nature of logging roads to be 'temporary'.

 

At least they kept it upright? Unlike that built FJ in a similar situation a few months back.

 

It's a numbered road, I didn't get the number as I actually hiked into it and that's when I discovered it. Hunting was more important but I did walk the section just to make sure it was actually the road I remembered from a couple years back.
It's off Crown Point road, one of the RH turns off the main road, then farther back there is a numbered road with a letter, this one was closed. No gate either, literally pushed down trees and sewn seed that looked way out of place. Like contractor grade lawn seed.

It goes back a few miles, there are a couple of pole blinds back in there and it ends at an open area with a campsite. The road actually went farther than that in years past but that gate has been there for as long as I can remember.

 

Interesting. I don't think I've made it back that far (and apparently there's a lot more roads back up there than I thought from looking at Google and the MVUM. I see some fairly recent logging stuff up that way, but not really enough description to narrow down which one it was. I need to get up there and see more than just Old Flowers/Long Draw.

I'm guessing the seed you saw was hydroseed, which is more a method than a grade. It's quick and easy to apply, and the mix stabilizes/protects/feeds the seed, so it's used quite a bit for restoration and road work. It does stand out and look unnatural when it's first put down, but that fades out for the most part within a few months to a year (even if the seed doesn't fill in). Gates and even end barriers are less effective at closing things down - they get cut/moved/driven around. These days restoration work typically tries to mask the trail (hiking too, not just roads) by doing what you saw - downed trees, cover it with brush or seed, try to make it look like it isn't even there for a good enough distance back people won't even notice there ever was a trail. It stands out for a bit after it's first done, but for far less time than trying to let it regrow on its own after just blocking it off.

 

Anybody shoot 7mm-08? Forgot I've had these sitting around forever.

 

Almost... too bad they're not 7mm mag

 

@2016spicytaco ill enjoy a few cups of coffee on that!

 

Oh no, dont summon him!

 

That's why I accidentally bought them at the time!