Manual transmission Fan Club and BS thread (All Generations Welcome)

The Rev hang only happens like that if I am really slow pushing the clutch in or if I hesitate for a second after taking my foot off the gas and then push it down a bit slower than normal.

Other than that it is ok, but too fast in 1st to 2nd and I geta loud clunk/clank. There is a real fine line of smooth shift from 1st to 2nd, but I've just taken it to be normal for the truck. A few service techs have driven it and haven't commented on anything being odd about it so I don't know. I haven't driven any other manual tacomas, new or used so I have nothing else to compare it to either.

 

I just got my 2017 and I noticed a roughness in shifting into 2nd and 3rd yesterday and an accompanying clunk. Since my truck only has 160 miles on it, I assumed that it was my inexperience with the transmission that was causing the issue. (This is my first Taco) I also noticed that the problem seemed to subside after the truck warmed up. But perhaps this was just my wishful thinking. I will also have to pay more attention to the clutch engagement point as I am shifting. Hopefully it is a combination of my inexperience and a break in period, but I will be keeping an eye on the problem and reporting back as I get some more miles on it.

 

I notice the same thing with my 2016. It is more prevalent when it is really hot outside. Shifts like butter in cooler weather.

Has anyone noticed low fluid in the manuals like the automatic transmission?

 

That makes sense. It was a warm one out yesterday. I was also wondering about the fluid levels and would love to get an answer.

Have you noticed that this problem continued with your 2016 as you kept driving it?

 

~5000 miles on my truck. I thought the same as you when I first bought it, that I just needed to learn the engagement. I've noticed the issue since day 1.

 

Good to know. I'm just hoping that it isn't creating any additional stress which could lead to premature trans problems down the road.

 

Hello, first time post. I am loving my 16 trd/or/mt. lots of things to have learned and still getting to know them. I bought this truck because, 1. Ive always wanted a pickup truck 2. Always wanted a manual pick up truck. 3. to go onto the beaches to fish with. So far I've read the this entire thread from beginning to end, but have not found any feed on how to use the 4-wheel drive system in depth for a MT. the reason i am so interested is for this scenario i encountered.

I gave way on the beach to a soft section of sand in a narrow passage. I was on relatively harder sand than the other guy who had to fight incline and soft sand. I was in 4 hi, 28lbs, had been cruising around totally fine. After i had stopped I could not get going again. The ABS seemed to be fighting me. I reversed thinking I was going to have to rock, instead of that I just rolled all the way back out barely touching the gas. Tried to go forward, again the ABS fought me. Dropped it to 4-lo, eased off the clutch and lightly gave gas, the car just shuddered.

Now the question I impose is, Why did my ABS fight me?

(This was terrific information, https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/a-trac-trac-auto-lsd-explained-easy-to-understand-i-hope.70551/ but how to apply it with MT? AT guys just have to engage and let off the brake and either just roll along or give gas. We have to engage with clutch.)

 

Your owners manual is going to be your go to point for information on shifting into 4lo and utilizing A-Trac, diff lock, etc. and what systems to use for the conditions.

On sand, in my experience, it is not ABS fighting you but VSC and traction control. The computer detects excessive wheel spin and is pulling power to those wheels in 4hi. 4lo disables these traction systems which is why it is recommended for all off road use.

My settings for sand driving: 4lo, A-TRAC on, Tires between 14 and 16PSI on 33"s. I just keep it under 15mph as per owners manual for 4lo.

 

Heads up for those that were interested in the shifting issues with the White Tacoma I test drove.

Techs at the dealership reproduced the shuddering and shift clunk/drivetrain lash today and are pulling the trans to do a full diagnosis and clutch replacement.

This truck has 70 miles on it, most of which are from me and the techs testing it.

 

Point taken and I am studying the manual and hope to get a solid grasp on it, but experiencing the "issues" will be my biggest teacher.

"ABS or VSC" - I also attempted this in 4-lo, and got the same shuddering. Do I continue to stay on the gas and completely off the clutch? Technically, the VSC and the traction control is the ABS, is it not?

In the end, I ended up backing up 40 yards to where I started from and then just rolled through in 4-hi again. I may not have 40 yards to back up next time and I want to be able to start from exactly where I left off.

Thanks for your reply.

 

Going to follow this, please keep us updated. Your description of drivetrain lash and shift clunks seem to be similar to my issues.

 

Of course - I absolutely understand experience being the best teacher.

In layman's terms, On-road (2HI and 4HI) traction control primarily reduces wheel spin by limiting your demand for power output to what the computer judges the surface you're driving on will support. If its sand, the computer's tiny little brain doesn't know that wheel spin is actually aiding you in getting up to speed where you will be better off.

Of course its more complicated than that, but I started my sentence with "layman's terms" as my disclaimer, so I'm leaving it at that. Basically, traction control means: Less throttle = less torque = less wheel spin = the vehicle ostensibly keeps going where the computer thinks it should and you're safer for it.

ABS tries to stop a vehicle quicker but in reality increases stopping distances and demands that the vehicle stay in a straight line. This is important because a head on impact utilizes more crumple zones, more surface area, transfers more energy around the occupant, and utilizes the passive and active restraints more effectively.

VSC wants to keep the shiny side of your vehicle up and uses brakes to dynamically shift weight (lifting and compressing the suspension through weight transfer), as once again an upright vehicle typically fairs better in a crash. If you've ever watched a WRC race you can immediately see why shifting weight forward, backward, and side to side in a sliding vehicle drastically improves traction and the control a driver has over the outcome of a slide. Toyota's VSC system is INCREDIBLE, and there are videos circulating of them testing it on the 4Runners that are very impressive.

All of these systems use the ABS system's rings for the data that they need about what the wheels are doing to function, so you're right in that VSC, ABS, and traction control all are connected - but they have different jobs that use that data differently. Not only that, but they have other sensors they draw and interpret data from in order to make their corrections.

OK so back to the question you actually asked!

If you're in 4lo and in 1st gear you should be able to completely let the clutch out as its only going to be going 5-10mph on top of sand. If you're getting a lot of shuddering while going along the top of the sand that would be very unusual, as in low range your revs should be fairly high (1500-3000 RPM) and there should be enough torque to climb almost anything your approach angles will clear. I have climbed rock scrambles in 4lo/1st with the clutch all the way, or almost all the way out.

If you're sinking/stuck in sand, or hitting an area with a small berm of loose sand, then you will get shuddering as some wheels are hooking up and others are spinning while you try to get moving, sending a sort of pulsing energy down the frame as wheels bite and spin, bite and spin.

If you're stuck and shuddering to get up and out of the sand again, here is what I would try: I'd stop completely right away so you won't dig yourself in deeper. Make sure you're in 4LO, turn on A-TRAC, lock the rear axle, and go back into first gear. Giving it light throttle and building up until you start to move the wheels, let A-TRAC get your front end working for you. Diff lock in the rear can potentially dig you in worse, but usually its the added traction you need.

If you still having trouble, try rocking the vehicle a bit by partially engaging the clutch at intervals in a slow, bumping motion to build a bit of energy and momentum. You can even use reverse lightly to get rearward motion, and then go back to first to bump forward again. When you feel that you've timed the rocking properly and have some energy built up, let the clutch out almost all the way while giving it gas and shoot up and forward.

Once you're up on top of the sand you should be able to keep momentum. If you're sinking or spinning tires out, or having consistent problems with climbing something due to traction, you need to air down more. If you're worried about getting stuck even then, grab a set of maxtrax. They are excellent in sand.

 

Will do.

 

Update...so I test drove a 3rd Gen TRD Sport 6MT today, with interesting results. If you are gently heel-toeing before a turn, the truck will let you do it. But, if you are being overly playful and aggressive, it won't allow the rev-match and it will give the dash warning. Out of the dozen times or I heel-toe'd into turns, the truck wouldn't allow me to do it about three times. Made me sadface.

I also walked away from the test drive less impressed with the drive train combo than I was expecting. The truck's intake and exhaust noise is really quiet, so maybe that is altering my perception of engine strength...but the MT still felt lacking <4K RPM to me. I couldn't shake the feeling my 3.4L '99 feels stronger from a stop. So weird. It just didn't feel fun to drive.

I have an order in on a '17 with the 6MT and now I am questioning my buy decision. Not awesome.

I need to go try again with the traction control off and see if the electronic throttle numbing is the culprit (hoping that TRAC OFF turns off the throttle modification). Ugh.

 

Sorry, this engine doesn't produce a lot of low end torque. You need to be above 3k to really feel anything at all. If you didn't like it, don't force yourself into it. Save your money and look at other options I'd say. Depends what you really need the truck for though.

 

This is my truck spot on. I thought the shuddering in first gear was odd but thought if I rode the clutch a little, it would eventually go away. Also thought the clunk in 5th was odd too. I have 600 miles on my truck and mpg sucks but hoping it would get better once fully broken in. Even with the minor issue mentioned, I love my truck!!

 

Sucks because my deal is around $3K off MSRP, lol. Took a lot of research and work. But a good deal of course isn't a reason to buy. Going to test drive again soon and spend more time in one before I make any further decision. Wish the 4Runner had an MT....

 

The manual transmission does make it a lot better than driving it with a slush box. On your next drive, keep the RPM's up and see how you feel. Accelerate in the 3200-3500 RPM range and you'll feel the majority of the torque you get. I know if you are considering buying the actual truck (it was ridiculously hard to find a M/T where I am, still is) you don't really want to push it too much, so its a little tough to really see how it can perform. But if there are multiple, eh, take another one out and push it.

If you off road at all though, it really comes to life off the pavement....

 

Thanks a ton!!! Really appreciate it.

It was really weird because i was able to back out of the spot with complete ease, but couldnt go forward. I say ABS because it was flashing angrily at me. I would only gas for couple of seconds at a time because i did not want to bury myself. Even after the pulsing sensation you mentioned, i was able to reverse right out as if normal driving.

 

I prefer not to change how I drive - I figure I will just use more gas if I am high in the RPM range all the time. I prefer to be comfy and efficient at the same time if possible. Anyhow, I drove another one today. Totally forgot to switch off traction control, damn.

BUT, this truck felt different. Same spec model too (TRD Sport AC). However it did feel peppier <4K RPM...but, it also had a less linear power delivery. If any of you guys have seen the wild dyno sheet that was posted around here with the insane peaks and valleys <3.5K RPM...yeah, it distinctly felt like a very jumpy power delivery...and I swore it was less smooth than the first truck.

1- I am shocked I noticed a difference at all in torque between two same-spec 6MTs.
2- I am shocked that the non-linearity of the power delivery was discernible, repeatedly, with constant throttle. It almost felt like a hesitation or soft lurch. Crazy.

I could chalk this up to a lot of perception errors and bias, etc, but I found it very interesting. Did not show up looking to feel that non-linearity. Surprised me.

I also drove a nice Chevy Diesel today. Gobs of torque, but slower than balls above ~30mph. Decent truck, good job GM. But, no manual tranny so I am not interested.

More thinking to do. Tacoma still may be the better choice for me. To be continued (if anyone cares).