Winch Questions

I had a 9500 Milemarker.... I would never get another one after having my Warn. The Warn is superior in so many ways. Faster line speed, smoother, quieter, better remote, and it hasn't rusted on me yet. On my Milemarker 9500, every exposed bolt head on the winch and all of the rollers on the fairlead rusted within 2 months.

 

Thanks for the honest opinion... I have a couple guys here at work that claim that mm are more superior to warn... but they're trucks tend to be more garage queens... no mud or dirt on em... I've alway's had great luck with warn and they're only about 20mins away from me. They just won't offer any GB's... damn them! lol

 

The thing to remember to get maximum strength out of your winch you need to unwrap the cable down to the last layer.

So the longer the cable the more you must unwrap to increase the strength. Additionally, it is harder on your cable if you pull full strength on a full wrap.

 

Good point! and missed by most.

 

Are you talking about winching it like that? Or are you talking about respooling?

If you're referring to winching like that - there's NO WAY you want to unwrap it down to the drum. You wanna keep as much line on that drum as possible for winching. Refer to page 14 inside the warning box (quoted below).
http://www.warn.com/corporate/images/90/UserManualSRC.US.readers.pdf
Never operate
winch with
less than 5
wraps of rope
around the
drum. Rope
could come
loose from the
drum, as the
rope attachment
to the
drum is not
designed to
hold a load.

If I misunderstood what you were saying... I apologize.

When you first get the winch, you need to RESPOOL the line. And you also need to respool it regularly.
If you go to page 16 in that same pdf - it'll give some tips on respooling while not under load.

 

actually i believe he was referring to winching..

in order to get maximum pulling power from your winch you should pull all the cable off until the is one full length wrap left on the drum... thats when you actually get the full power of the winch..


this is a direct quote from that pdf you just posted a link to..

Because pulling power decreases
with the number of layers of wire rope
on the winch drum, you can use a
snatch block to double line out more
wire rope.This decreases the number
of layers of wire rope on the drum,
and increases pulling power.

 

Mechanical advantage yeah....
You guys made it sound like you're pulling the entire cable off or atleast close to it. The cable could slip off if you pull too much off.

You're far better off leaving as much cable on the drum and using a snatch block for more pulling power if you ever need it (very rare).

There was only one situation (in 9 years) where we needed to think about 'mechanical' advantage and we used two winches & two snatch blocks. In most situations - the snatch block isn't used for mechanical advantage, its used to direct the cable in the proper angles to get a smoother/striaight pull.

The terrain & situation will determine your necessity to need pulling power. It's more getting it lined up and hooked up staight.

 

well i'm not saying i make it a point to pull most all of the cable off for every pull.... but if you happen to encounter a time when your stuck good enough the winch dosn't seem to want to pull if can never hurt to maximize your pulling capacity by getting most of the cable off the drum...

and yes typically a snatch block is used to redirect the pull to a different angle... or even multiple angles.. my last recovery on the trail was a dodge pickup.. used about 95ft. of the 100 ft. of my winch cable, 3 snatch blocks, 3 tree straps, and 2 tow straps just to get him out... basically i was behind him and had to winch him forward so we routed the cable all the way around him and back to the front of his truck...

 

I seen a warn winch 8000Ib in action and I have to say I was in press with it.if it came time for me to get one that's what I be shooting for.
sorry no pics.

later tig1

 

most all big name winches out are of good quality... alot of it comes down to how well they are taken care of also.. prime example... at our firehouse we had a ramsey 9000lbs winch on one of our trucks... i think we would all agree that ramsey is a pretty well known brand and has a good reputation.. well here's what happened to it in the recent snow storm we had trying to pull out another truck..



after that i managed to pull it out with my "cheap" smittybuilt winch with no problems..

now i'm not knocking ramsey winches.. they are of good quality. but that winch was not properly taken care of and that was the result.. and let me tell you.. you don't wanna be around when a winch explodes with several thousand pounds of force applied to it!

 

I've been taught to bring out 'till there are 5 wraps - each full wrap lessons the strength of the motor/gear combo. Think of it this way: if you are pulling with it fully wrapped it is like a longer moment arm (like using a breaker bar). The Warn instructions are talking about having enough of a bite on the drum so that it is not stressing the fitting on the end of the rope or how it is attached to the drum. I remember 50 years ago when I was studying mechanical/areo engineering we were always taught to have at least 3 wraps of cable on a drum.

 

Always go with no less than 5 wraps. you will be fine at that. but even then you will only get the full pulling force up to the point that it starts the 2nd layer!
Keep in mind that if you leave the last layer fully on the drum and then winch, you will NOT be getting the full power of the winch. you will be starting the 2nd layer pulling force Also if your drum is not spooling properly you may be turning a radius that is equal to 4 wraps at times and then 2 wraps at other times. it can be very inconsistant unless your drum is spooling "perfectly".

a snatch block doubles the pulling force so after a quick calculation, i would just use the proper 1,2 or 3 point rigging needed or use 2 vehicles and 2 block for a 4 point rigging laying out the least amount of cable necessary. Respooling is a pain

now as for cable vs rope, synthetic rope is awesome however there isnt enough to make me change over and pay that much money just yet.

the minute (dont take "minute" too literal guys) your rope comes in contact with the "elements" it starts to lose the rating of its pull and is more and more likely to break. This happens slowly throughout the course of its life and there is really no way to know how much, but it does and more so than cable by far. Cable will keep its strength longer. i know it depends on the use but if you had a cable and a rope that were the same pull rating and used the same way throughout there entire life the rope would eventually fail first.

When cable eventually does fail, it is cheaper to replace by far.

Yes Cable can be affected by rocks and debri but nothing even closely comparable to rope. If you take a cable and a rope winched over (rubbing) a rock with the same force, the rope will damage and fail first every time.

I will say though, that yes you get more pull per pound of rope than with cable its nicer to work with and you definitely cant deny the saftey factor since the cable is liable to take your head off!

So in the end, for some it is worth the extra money and for others we are just happy with the cable we've used for so long because it does just fine and has not failed us for years. Its like the HD movement, yeah its nice but i can see my movie just fine without it so i dont pay for it. its not worth it to me. nothing is really wrong with either of them. I work with cable winches every day and just dont see the reason i would pay that much more.

NO one can argue that on the whole(insert preparation H joke here) cable is better than rope. Rope is better just not enough for me to pay the price for it. Until i am rich, or at least more well off than i am now, i will just continue to use my gloves, stand a safe distance away, and suck it up when it comes to packing the cable that is sooooo heavy and save my money.

Oh and as for the OP... ahahahahaha i love getting off topic, Warn all the way.
When it comes to winches you get what you pay for! Warn is a dominator in the winching industry. you will never be upset. There IS winches out there like Ramsey that are good winches but nothing is like having the "warm and fuzzy feeling" a Warn gives you

Rememeber people JMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All good points - IMO

I spent a summer in the Gulf of Mexico working on a tug* boat. When I think about the way we abused the shiat out of the 1 1/4 - 2" cables I just think OMG! - Especially when you think they're sitting in salt water most all the time! We were pulling pipe laying barges and their anchors (2-4,000 lbs IIRC) 24/7.

Also, regarding the synth rope - that black sheath that's on there (mine has two) - it's to be used where it may come in contact with a stationary substance - and then the rope will slide through the sheath*.

I also have a brother that was a captain on a tug that now has an eye socket that is 1/16 of an inch inboard towards his nose. That was from just a single strand that whipped around a bulk head (not a full cable) after a 1 1/2" cable snapped. He was lucky to have a head left. Come to think of it, he may have never been right after that day. If that was a syth rope, he would have never have needed to be air evac'd. Oh yeah, for years, his wife worked on his boat as a deckhand*.

For my head* and my money, I'm goin' stick with synthetic - I am NOT SAYING BE LIKE ME - just my opinion.

* insert tug jokes hear - I was a deckhand if you need help starting one.

 

haha nice. yeah i guess you cant put a price on safety huh. and i forgot to mention that if the cable breaks your shit out of luck for winching ops.

Hey question for you winchers without taking this too far off topic..seen the black hawse steel farileads and it says it is for use with rope AND cable.
Warn 73850 black steel hawse fairlead
is this acceptable? i was going to use a roller but if it was feasible i would like to use the hawse they look nicer. i seen some talk on yota tech and guys there have been using them no probs. hell of a lot cheaper than a $2-300 roller.

 

Interesting! For what it's worth, on our recent Bill Burke experience, he uses and strongly suggests rollers for rope too. He feels that the off chance that you would rig with a rope in a position that would get caught in the 45, 135, 215 and 305 (degrees) postition of the roller setup - you could rig out of that position in short order.

 

yeah now that i think about it more i think i just might go with the black steel hawse. it wouldnt be made for em if it wasnt practical i guess. but then again theres a lot of stuff made out there to work for something that ends up ass hahaha. atleast there some people out there that have used em and have no compaints.

 

I just think this picture deserves to be here...