Creationism vs. Evolution

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but I lean this way a bit. I don't believe god created everything as it is now, or was when man first walked the earth. More like maybe god or something else tossed all the ingredients into a pot, and is watching what happens.

I read a series of books years ago, the Rama trilogy, that seemed to offer the best explanation to me. The premise of the book was each planet with life was like a terrarium or fish bowl. God put stuff in it, and then sat back to watch what happened like a science experiment. Never got involved, never did anything. There were also massive ships and space stations throughout the galaxies that would occasionally monitor and/or sample said worlds and bring specimens back for testing... But the basic idea of god (or whatever being they referred to) throwing things together like a mad chef before tossing it in the oven to see what came out made sense. lol It would explain HOW life started, how all the right ingredients came together, and how things changed. Would explain dinosaur fossils, different skin colors, etc. Just set the ingredients aside and see how they grow and develop over time.

 

^^So are you an atheist or not PT???

 

lol I never said I believe in God. I said it would explain a lot of things. Like I don't believe in Santa Claus, but it would've explained the sleigh and reindeer like tracks I saw in my neighbors yard one Christmas morning many years ago along with the sound of a bell jingling above the roof.

Either way, evolution doesn't explain HOW the universe was created. Sure, there's the big bang theory, but what made THAT? How did all the ingredients come together for that?

And what's the universe? A mostly empty, ever expanding void? With the occasional solar system scattered about here and there? I want to know what's BEYOND the universe? (As in how there's the moon and sun and... beyond the Earth's atmosphere) Is the universe inside something else? Like God's big fish tank/pet gerbil cage/etc.

I believe everything that has a start, has a finish. Everything around us has a definitive border and shape. Current theories about space going on forever with no start or end or borders don't make sense to me. So I want to know where does it start and end.

And in reality, what are the chances of life just popping up out of the ooze? Or humans coming to be with our complex nervous, muscular, immune systems, and the brain itself that no one has yet to duplicate mechanically. We are basically very complex, efficient, machines. Seems a little hard to believe that this couldn't have happened COMPLETELY by accident.

I can see how we evolved from apes:

1. food higher up in the trees lead to more upright posture
2. making dwellings, clothes, fire lead to less required body hair
3. the population as a whole getting taller/bigger as required

Whatever, I can see that happening, grasp it, and accept it. But not without *something* helping it along at least in the beginning. Like, my oven can make wonderful food out of random things shoved in it. But not without some preparation ahead of time by myself or wife, and some controls set in place (temp, time, etc). The oven isn't going to make chicken parmigiana or carrot cake by itself. Even if I just tossed everything in and turned it on.

 

PT-you crack me up dude...the Santa story.

I refuse to nitpick words out of your previous post cause I don't like when people do that. I was just kinda messin' anyway cause of your 'Devout atheist' title under your user name.

You make very good points.....I just want to highlight how your points always are directed to the foundation of creation and evolution....Just a thought to ponder. Also, make sure you're comfortable with what happens, or doesn't happen when you die.

Got to go eat turkey, have a great turkey day PT, and any way we go, you're always gonna be a great friend of mine! If you ever get a hunger to bring Jesus in your life and want to talk about it, let me know, and I'll make time to talk with you anytime.


Happy Thanksgiving TW!

 

lol Yeah, the Santa Story traumatized me as a child. I looked out the window one morning after waking up to bells jingling above my bedroom ceiling (top floor of the house) to see 2 parallel tracks with "hoof" prints down the center in the snow. Always made me wonder, but never happened again so.... whatever. lol

Depending on your opinion of Born Again Christians you'd probably like my friend Nikki who's always trying to "save" me. Guess she thinks I need saving.

There's also been some odd "coincidences" in my life that make me wonder if someone's looking out for me now and then, but nothing concrete. My main problem with religion, or creation in general is people pushing it as the only possible solution despite evidence pointing to the contrary. I'm willing to debate things with people and accept their answers if they make sense or can be proven. It's the people that refuse any sort of compromise or to even accept something as possible that piss me off. Those people come across as ignorant and/or arrogant to me. Neither of which I tolerate very well. Which is why I don't go to church. Too many people pushing things that contradict each other, or seem like flat out lies and expect everyone to blindly accept as truth without question. I'm sure by now you can see I question everything so that doesn't fly with me.

Anyway, you've been a good friend as well and have a happy thanksgiving! I need to go clean the house before family swarms the house.

 

I received in an e-mail:

God is sitting in heaven when a scientist says to him,
"Lord, we don't need you anymore. Science has finally
figured out a way to create life out of nothing. In other
words, we can now do what you did in the beginning."

"Oh, is that so? Tell me," replies God.

"Well," says the scientist, "we can take dirt and form it
into your likeness and breathe life into it, thus creating
man."

"Well, that's interesting. Show me."

So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold
the soil.

"Oh no, no, no," interrupts God. "Get your own dirt."

 

ROFL! That's funny Twinner!

 

i beleive in a mixture of both...how do you know that god didnt create evolution?

just food for thought..

 

After taking a Biological Anthropology class and learning about evolution, I believe in evolution 100%.

I was raised a Christian and held those beliefs until roughly a year ago. There is far to much evidence in support of evolution for me to believe in anything else.

 

I wish the poll was open. I'd have to vote for evolution. I just read through this entire thread. I love this kind of stuff! I pretty much have my own religion. It changes from time to time, so its a work in progress. But right now its science mixed with transcendentalism... I like to call it the Truth

 

X2... Creationism for me!

 

That name is actually already taken by another religion. Seriously--it's one of the women-can't-cut-their-hair and have-to-wear-dresses ones....my mom-in-law was part of it for years. Not any more though.

 

for me there is far too little evidence. too many unanswered questions. there are a ton of theories but alot cannot actually be proven.

 

Very interesting.

Please tell me what they taught you about the origination of the first single cell.

I think you were speaking towards evolution, but is this in reference to evolution or creation?

 

i believe in adaptation and evolution within a species. but i dont believe one species can become another. dino's into birds, monkeys into people, frogs into chipmonks. it just cant happen, their dna is different. i believe there was a force that caused creation (some kind of supreme being) and evolution took over from there. but i dont think my ancestor is a one celled organism.

my problem is scienctist immediately coming up with solutions to situations they cannot comprehend. its all about perspective.

 

I believe that it's not creationism nor evolution. I think it was a drastically intelligent alien race that gave us everything we have and we are some science experiment to them!

In all seriousness though I don't believe in creationism nor do I have any affiliation to a specific religion. I also do not believe completely in evolution either.

I have read the first 7 or 8 pages of this thread but it started to get repetitive so I lost interest but wanted to give my OPINION and knowledge from what I know. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ANY OF THIS IS RIGHT, NOR AM I TRYING TO OFFEND ANYONE. If I do happen to offend anyone simply send me a PM and I will send you a sincere apology.

If we are going to be continuing this topic then shouldn't it be talking about a deity instead of God? God, if I have it correctly, is from Christianity, and Judaism. Allah is from the Muslim tradition. There are other names for other traditions, however, all specify deities.

A quick question I came up with was: looking back at older traditions some are polytheistic, and others are monotheistic. Which ones are correct?

I hope that this question has not been asked already and if it has I apologize for being repetitive. If evolution shows us that everything came from one big bang and then out came a single celled organism which over time evolved into everything that we have now then how was that single celled organism created? That question is answered by the creationists by saying that it was the deity or God that created everything for the big bang theory to have happened. Now I ask if that is the case then how is this deity or God created because surely it's not possible to have this deity create itself now is it?

 

God is christian, but god is any higher power

 

I see, well to me deity would be a better way of saying it but to each his own.

 

The big C for me! The book of Genesis and the biblical explanation of creation is the only thing I've ever read that makes sense to me personally, as it satisfies my questions as to how I got here, how everything else got here, and why I'm the way I am. I don't understand it all by any means, but after 56 years of being here on this chunk of earth and having experienced more than my share, I'm happy w/ my beliefs as stated above. Granted, it does require faith, as there were no witnesses per say other than Adam/Eve, and then one must believe what Genesis states to begin w/, but after trying to figure out evolution earlier in life I became even more confused...I do believe that "things" evolve and adapt to situations and enviroments, but I could find no proof of evolution of "things" springing from one form to another. My personal thought is that science and archeology often times prove biblical statements, thus making it easier for me to understand. One might google the Creation Institute and other such organizations for a look at creation verses evolution ideas, as many of these "creation" peeps were once scientists and such, and can provide a more in depth explanation, especially relating to dinosaurs, animal genuses etc...thanks be to those who managed to remain awake during this exertation!