Firearm BS thread

Picked this up at a Taurus Tracker 22/22Mag blem sale has a few cylinder marks and a couple of barrel marks but @ $200 out the door it was a win win....

 

Hows this for reaching out this has to be my fav to shoot out of my collection.....

I dont have it anymore

 

...^^^... Good article on Browning at that link.

I had to do a research paper on Browning for ROTC many years ago and I still forget all the important things he developed.

 

I found this today this was G30 right out of the box @ 50 feet

 

It's mostly marketing anyway. I was shooting a 300 whisper a long time ago, but throw it in an AR and give it a cool name and all of a sudden every tacticool dude out there has to have one. Same thing with the 6.5 creedmoor. The round has been around since at least the 50s but really had no reason for existing on a large scale. ARs became popular about the same time "long range" hunting became popular, as well as more VLD bullets on the market, and all of a sudden with a new cool name it becomes all the rage, even though the actual usefulness over other rounds is still debatable. Outside of use in an AR, the creedmoor case holds very little interest or need for me.

Not that I'm against new stuff and constantly reinventing the wheel, but sometime it does get amusing how each generation "discovers" something new.

 

IIRC 300 Whisper was a wildcat whereas 300 BLK is SAAMI spec'd, between the influx in suppressors, increase in the short AR platform and 300 BLK being a SAAMI cartridge it became a decent "factory" option for a subsonic suppressed cartridge vs having to find or make 223/556 that's subsonic (or really any other common AR caliber).

6.5 Creedmoor is not an AR-15 round just to clarify, I'm not sure if that's what you meant with the last part of the paragraph.

Edit: apparently a few companies are dabbling in the 6.5 Creedmoor in an AR-10 platform, interesting.

 

How dear you discredit Mr. Creedmoor like that. You should be ashamed of yourself! Yes the 6.5 round has been around for a while, so has 308 and 30-06, what's your point? But the AR platform and conventional platforms are a completely different discussion, and having nothing to do with the 6.5. The AR style is just utilizing the straight-line shooting platform and they put the 65 Creedmore to use in it. What's your problem? Your certainly entitled to your opinion but don't diss on something, just because you don't prefer it.

 

Easy there man. I'm not dissing on anything. I said for my purposes. Do you know and disagree with my purposes? I might ask what your problem is. Don't want to hear anyones opinion that is not 100% the same as yours? You obviously use and enjoy the 6.5 creedmoor and that's great. For me, the only reason I would want one is for the limited OAL of the AR rifles, otherwise I'll take the 6.5/284, 6.5SAUM or 6.5-06AI. If I'm using a bolt rifle for long distance, I'd rather not be shortchanged on velocity. The creedmoor existed for many years in other names but needed the right mix of marketing to become a successful round. There is nothing magical about it or any other round. Use what you want. I'm glad we have many choices and are not stuck with only a few. Chill.

And Mr Creedmoor???

 

The 6.5mm Creedmoor is a center fire rifle cartridge introduced by Hornady in 2007 as a modification of the .30 TC, which was based on the 300 Savage. It was designed specifically for rifle target shooting, although it is also achieving success in hunting. Bullet for bullet it achieves a slower muzzle velocity than longer cartridges such as the 6.5-284 Norma or magnums such as the 6.5mm Remington Magnum. However, due to its 2.825 inch overall length, the 6.5mm Creedmoor is capable of being chambered in short-action bolt rifles and AR-10 rifles.

Design considerations
6.5 mm (.264") bullets, in general, are known for their relatively high sectional density and ballistic coefficients, and have seen success in rifle competition. For some loads the 6.5mm Creedmoor is capable of duplicating the muzzle velocity or trajectory of the .300 Winchester Magnum while generating significantly lower recoil, based on lighter projectile weight. As this cartridge is designed for a bolt face diameter of .473 inches (roughly 12 mm), conversion of a short action rifle to another caliber (such as the .22-250 Remington, .243 Winchester or .300 Savage) with similar bolt face diameter generally requires little more than a simple barrel change.

Performance
This is a medium power cartridge often compared to the .260 Remington and 6.5×47mm Lapua. Three hundred yard energy using 129 grain Hornady SST bullets is listed by an independent reviewer as 1641 ft. lbs. For the 140 grain bullet at 2700 feet per second initial velocity another reviewer reports an MPBR for a six inch high target of 265 yards and reports a manufacturer claim of "almost 1600 ft. lbs." of retained energy at 300 yards using a 24-inch barrel. SAAMI test data confirms 6.5 mm Creedmoor (fifteen foot from muzzle) velocity of 2,940 fps for the 129 grain bullet and 2,690 for the 140 grain bullet (which compares to .300 Winchester magnum data of 2,930 fps for a 200 grain bullet and 2,665 fps for a 210 grain bullet). Long-range shooter Ray "RayDog" Sanchez summarised the bolt-action Tubb 2000 rifle in 6.5mm Creedmoor as "boringly accurate" at 1000 yards (914.4 metres). He asserted the rifle and ammunition combination he used was able to maintain sub-MOA groups at 1000 yards (914.4 meters). The 6.5 Creedmoors accuracy compared to the 6.5x47 Lapua, a cartridge that has nearly identical ballistic performance, falls just a little short for hand loaders. According to Rifleshooter.com’s editor, "In my personal experience, the 6.5×47 Lapua seems to be slightly more accurate than the 6.5 Creedmoor."

 

The 6.5 Creedmoor is the 6.5X250 improved which has had several different names and been used for long range target shooting since the 50s, marketing aside. It was always a very accurate cartridge with a small following. Great marketing made what was old, new. Of course, almost every "new" cartridge introduced in the last 20 years was designed and used a long time ago. Cartridge design happened a long time ago. Better bullet and powder selection resurrects many old designs that were way ahead of their time.

 

Kind of like music aaaa!

 

If Charles Newton had todays powders, cartridge design would have been over in the 20s. Guys like Newton, Niedner, Whelen, Roberts, and others of their time(1910-40s), and later guys in the 50s like Waters and Ackley basically wildcatted almost every commercial cartridge introduced up to today. Bullets and powder have changed a lot but cartridge design not so much.

Jim Carmichel championed the 6.5s in general and the 6.5X250 in particular to Remington years ago. Remington felt it wasn't marketable, and during that time it probably wasn't. There were few "long range" target shooters. They felt a 6.5 on the 308 case would sell better so that's the direction they went, even though Carmichels extensive data showed the 6.5X250 to be the more accurate round. Years later Hornady saw the market shift toward long range and through great marketing produced a round that will probably be much more successful commercially than the .260 that Remington went with.

The 6.5X250 didn't start as a target round though. It was originally designed to fit the M99 OAL as none of the current 6.5s of the day would fit. Of course, that was back when 6.5s were .263 and not .264.

I've always held more interest for the 6X250. Now that Hornady is producing the 6mm Creedmoor, I may have to have another light hunting rifle built. Brass was always an issue for any of the wildcat 250s, but now Hornady has solved that.

 

Let me just add this about the 6.5 creed. It is probably the best out of the box cartridge and rifle combo on the market today for many long range target needs. I'm certainly not bagging on it at all. I just don't see it as the panacea that some do. If I was getting into the target rifle market and was choosing between a 6.5 creed and a 308, the creed would win hands down. If I was not a reloader, it would pretty much be a 6.5 creed or a 308 and would be close. Prices have come down quite a bit on the creed ammo and may now be cheaper to shoot than the 308. The creed certainly has a very useful space among the choices. Just not my uses.

I have never been partial to the 6.5s, even though I've used the creed, 6.5X55, 6.5/284, and 6.5/300WBY. I like the 6mms for the low end recoil and the 7mms for long range hunting. The 6.5s had fast twists and high BCs going for them from the beginning. It's taken a while for the other calibers to catch up, but they are slowly. If ruger chambers the RPR in the 6mm creed, I will certainly be tempted to get one even more than the older 243 version. I've moved to a 280AI for my long range hunting but would love to have a mild 6mm with decent barrel life. I have a Sako 243 that will be shot out soon, so maybe it will become my 6mm creed.

 

Okay, so all of this data on the 6.5 has me rethinking my choice of RPR I am going to shoot one this weekend hopefully if it works out....

 

You got the Ruger precision rifle correct? In 308?
One of the very cool aspects of this gun is barrel changes are DIY easy. Shoot the 308, get some experience with the gun. Pick up a 6.5 barrel, get the reloading dies, and as long as you stay with the 308 family of cartridges making the switch is not difficult.

That's how I made the transition to 708, except my barrel was threaded and headspaced in the traditional manner of being chucked up in the lathe (cut, check, adjust, cut more, check, adjust, fine tune, lock it down)

 

That's the beauty of the 6.5. The match grade ammo that you can buy at $25 off the shelf,shoots just as good as our custom loads, that's why I stopped making custom loads for it and just started buying match grade off-the-shelf that shot just as well.

 

I'll shoot factory match ammo as well (when I was running the 308 anyway)
The reason I roll my own is the same reason I spend all day at the range, it gives me an opportunity to clear my head and not have to think about anything else.
Also factory match ammo in the quantities I shoot can get a bit pricey.

 

What's up TW so I'm starting to look for a summer carry/pocket pistol specific. I've looked into Taurus a lil bit but I know there prone to problems/failures but what I'm wondering is does anyone have anything good to say about Taurus? I have a G30s and a Sig sp2022 and love them both. I've also been looking into the Springfield XDS as well any one have any experience with the XDS ?

 

No, I have been looking at the RPR in 308 and the guys at the LGS have been pushing me over to the 6.5....I now have someone through a buddy that has the RPR in 6.5 and I will shoot it this weekend to see how I like it....

 

I carry the xd40 subcompact. It tucks in nice in the small of my back and doesnt print.