BAD Experience with BFC (Black Flame Customs)

BFC,

We will have to agree to disagree.

Although the RTV silicone I added clearly didn't seal well, there's no way it made things worse. Silicone doesn't expand when it freezes like water; and even if water got under my silicone, it shouldn't have gotten past your sealant.

As for the moisture packets, this must have been a process you've changed in the last few years. Change can be good.

I hope you've changed the way you seal these housings, because I don't believe the two halves should separate like this -- not after 3 months or 3 years. They should never separate, if re-sealed properly.

Not sure what was used, but it seams that whatever was used didn't work. More accurately, whatever was used didn't adhere as well at it sealed, as the 2 halves separated over time. Need that gray stuff Toyota uses in their original housings I guess.

 

We used butyl - as most shops would. You opted not to communicate with us on this claimed issue three years ago, two & a half years ago or anything in-between. You instead chose to bring this issue to light now - after nearly three years.

Not just privately either - very publicly.

It makes it hard for us to offer help, support or stand behind our products AND services, if we're never given the chance to do so.

Good luck. Thank you.

 

It doesn't matter that I didn't communicate with you about the minimal condensation I noticed at 6 months. There shouldn't be condensation at 3 years -- PERIOD !

Yes, I've chosen to make this public -- b/c Tacoma owner's need to see (pictures are worth so much more than words) what your product looks like.

I've seen many HID retro-fits -- condensation like this is a sign of poor workmanship.

 

Honestly - how can it not matter that you didn't communicate? If there WAS actually an issue with something WE did - don't we at least get an opportunity to make it right?

According to everything you've posted here - apparently not.

Both headlights where built the same - so if our workmanship was so unbelievably poor as you claim, why hasn't the other light failed? Custom projects - from headlights, to metal fabrication or anything installed in the aftermarket can fail or wear out - that's just the nature of anything in this field. If we thought a headlight project would last 100 years and never have the chance of getting any moisture in it - we would put that information on our website. That's just simply not reality - as any shop would attest to.

Resealing of the headlights isn't a craftsmanship issue - and since you modified the seal on day one of owning them, we really have no way of knowing just what happened do we?

Three years later and we still offered to fix the issue without charging for labor - if that's not a testament to what our customer service is and our confidence with OUR work - we must not know what we're doing then.

Good luck and thank you.

 

I looked at the other headlight -- there is separation at the same seal point on top of the headlight housing --- just not to same extent at the driver's side. In other words it is only a matter of time before there is condensation in the passenger side as well. Obviously, I'll seal it before then.

I didn't "modify the seal" on day 1. I just added RTV on top of your seal. If your seal was good, then the RTV wouldn't matter. The silicone does NOTHING to butyl. Chemistry man.

I still say - if the headlight housings were sealed properly, then there wouldn't be condensation. Not in 3 years. Not in 30 years.

As far as your offer to help, it's just not practical. So, I remove the headlight housing. Then, what? Ship to you so you can put it in an oven for 30 minutes? then ship it back to me? So, I have 1 headlight for a few days to a week. Or I drive up to Ft. Collins, to do the same thing -- pretty much an entire day driving. Or I can just remove it myself, bake it myself, and save myself the shipping costs, gas cost, and time.

So basically, what I'm saying is -- you should have done it right the 1st time. And YES, the fact that there is condensation at 3 years means you didn't do it right the 1st time.

 

Seems like you will honor your work, if you were givin a chance. Even tho you only have a 1 year seal warranty. In my mind, that's good customer service.

 

Chris, as far as I'm concerned things are cool. But I don't see anything productive coming from keeping this thread alive. The pictures I posted pretty much say what I wanted to say. Let potential Tacoma HID-retrofitter's decide for themselves.

 

Simply trying to keep facts in place - that's all. Plenty has been said and I'm fine with what others have chimed in to say as well.

 

Thanks - and it's appreciated that our responses and account weren't deleted. We absolutely understand his frustration too - and it's not our intention to sell or build products that CAUSE frustration - if that were the case we wouldn't still be around after 10+ years.

Just tough to NOT respond when we have zero opportunities to rectify a situation that wasn't caused by our work OR lack of work. That's all.

Thank you

 

I agree with BFC here, how can they intervene and possibly help you if you never contact them. Its not like telepathy is a way of communication. I honestly give BFC props for entertaining this thread for this long. You decided to move forward with this and not take up the warranty opportunity. Cool man, really that should be it from an explanatory sense and yet you seem to still be mad the fact there are issues with the lights. I get the hassle, having to take them out, no possible back up headlights, etc. Its like no matter what BFC responds with, it will be bad from your perspective as they cant do ANY actions to rectify it because you wont let them.

It is unfortunate that you are the one with this issue that has to deal with it, but keep in mind if you handle this and it somehow goes south...you may not get another opportunity to get these corrected without an additional charge. As mentioned before, hope it turns out well, but really BFC has provided as much support in this as you are letting them. Its not their fault at this point, but maybe I see things differently.

Coot

 

Stuff happens, things fall through the cracks, that's why warranties exist. If everything was made perfectly every time, there would never be a need for warranties. It seems like Dr. Sleep has no understanding of what a warranty means, or the proper courteous manner in which to get warranty and customer service. Threads like this are to be posted after receiving dissatisfactory service, not before receiving service which it seems the OP had no intention of even accepting in the first place.

 

What happened to all the pics? Man, for a second, I thought I was reading a thread in 3rd gen issues....

Hope you guys get this sorted.

 

I'll add my .02, BFC has a great reputation on HIDP and many other enthusiast forums. They have done a bazillion retrofits. If they were shit, you probably would have heard about them way before now. Hope this gets resolved and Happy Holidays BFC!

 

As of now - everyone loses. We had an unhappy customer - which sucks. While that happens all the time in everything and we understand this, we just wanted an opportunity to rectify it.

Win some - lose some. It sucks regardless.

Thank you.

 

I see your point there Chris, at the same time how is it the responsibility of BFC to ensure the OP has a back up? They can only charge so much and provide so much product giving what the OP paid. I think this still goes back to what @snowbrdd said, warranties exist because there is a need for them.

Another hobby I take up from time to time is airsoft. These guns can get finicky sometimes, especially after upgrades, but most places offer a 1 year warranty. That may not seem like a while, but if you use the gun in a decent time frame the symptoms for issues tend to arise relatively quick and normally you would know after a few months if things are sound. I find it funny some are still getting hung up on the three year mark with these lights...BFC stated they would still cover this if given the opportunity. Maybe my luck is just bad compared to others or maybe Sleep has it that good in life. I always assume that any product I buy, whether from the factory or not ALWAYS has a chance of an issue. Sometimes custom work get a more sensitive eye than the factory, but the opportunity for a warranty tends to exist to me for most things. In the arena such as tacomaworld where mods to trucks is a somewhat normal occurance and many threads are created to handle possible issues, I am surprised by some of the reactions here, its like some are shocked that a custom headlight can even have an issue?

Coot