Brice's NA V6 Build

MAF table is all zeroes. What are your trims and afr at idle?

 

If I put my MAF table at 0 the truck won't start. AFR is like 11-13.0 at idle but varies a bunch, 11-13 is the most recent. I haven't looked at trims yet

 

Hmm, not sure. I didn't touch a thing with the MAF. Could be o2 troubles like you were thinking. There's a way to tell if it's wideband or narrow. Think wideband has one more wire. Did you use a resistor on the o2 signal?

 

No, I think my sensor has 4 wires.

 

Remove those big @$$ injectors and put something more conservative in; no more than 400cc.

 

I do not believe the injectors are the issue here. Vasin and Clay aren't having problem with the injectors being too big, and they have 550 cc's and 650 cc's. IIRC the MapECU3 is the one that had issues above 400 cc's since it only tapped the signal wire? The AEM intercepts it so it can change it completely.

 

It may be injectors. Our trucks are not similar enough for me to assume the same setup is interchangeable. I'm using a blow through setup with the MAF and it's on a 3.5" pipe I believe. You may have to adjust MAF values but I don't see how it would change idle. If your ecu can't find stoic at closed loop idle it's likely o2 sensor related.

Let's see your fuel table.

 

Gadget at URD (arguably one of the most experienced at tuning this engine) was never able to get higher injectors to work well on the stock ECU. With professional assistance, you can get them to work but you will still be very rich at idle and will have to do a lot of tuning on not just the injectors but your stock AFR sensor. You will also need an O2 sensor simulator to stop throwing codes and go ahead and get rid of your Cat because it will get destroyed from all the unburned fuel going through it. If you are making a track truck this might be ok but if you want to keep it a DD, get new injectors.

Besides, the power potential of those injectors far exceed your stock engine potential. Get smaller injectors and save yourself a ton of headaches.

There is a reason Gadget developed the URD Turbo port fueler. Big injectors on this engine/ECU combo just suck. IIRC his biggest recommended was 420cc.

 

Alright, I just made a new base for testing purposes and such, haven't tried it yet. Also 3.5 inch charge pipes?

 

What you need to be tuning is your injector pulse width.

 

Start here:

https://github.com/javiermuniz/tuning/wiki/Introduction-to-Injector-Scaling
http://www.airboytuning.com/archives/104
http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtune.htm

 

Not 3.5" lol, maybe 2.75"? Think it's actually the size of the stock pipe but for some reason I want to say it's bigger than the pipe the MAF is on stock.

That is way too much fuel on the top. If you notice my map is almost the same at idle and max load with slightly less in the middle. All the numbers on my map are negative. I can't really make sense of it but my afrs are exactly what I want. It's all based on your fuel trims though, those are the numbers you need to be referencing. I would set the bottom to that -55 and the top to -45 and calculate the middle as a starting point. The only way you can tune closed loop is through the o2 skew so you need to figure that out as well. I may have mislead you before about how to set it up as my procedure was for a narrow band. There is another video on YT for setting up wideband which I haven't watched and it may give you some insight.

 

If you can, take a look at what your "load" is under different driving conditions. With a blow through setup my ecu sees 100% load at around 2 psi which at my altitude is near 14.7. This may account for some large differences in what or fuel maps need to be because our ecus are seeing different loads at different MAP values. The load percentage is based on the mafs readings and is also what is used to bracket the ecus fuel table I believe. I think you have a pre turbo MAF? Your ecu might be seeing very small load values compared to mine.

 

Trying to take in this last page of comments, a lot are true if given the context of where the statement comes from (outdated piggybacks, times of old etc), IMO go google crazy on tuning the FIC per your setup as it should be capable. I run 625cc on my 5vz like it is stock, the key is modern piggybacks like the FIC intercepting injector driver wires and adding/removing duty cycle there, not tuning via MAF signal manipulation. Where the MAF signal manipulation maps come in handy with the FIC is to compensate/calibrate MAF signal around changes in piping size, and if you actually create enough flow, a MAF clamp feature. Use common sense that any load past the MAF clamp will require special fuel map tuning. Thats where tuning piggies become a real pain, the fuel map tuning around closed loop to open loop OEM ECU transitions and past MAF clamp regions.

Hell you can delete the MAF all together (not including the IAT) with an FIC with some really astute logging, there is a tutorial on their forums. Modern piggies are pretty awesome but a big learning experience. My endorsement of the FIC has waned as I tried to identify pinging when my AT shifted (not an issue for manuals), it does not have an additional timing retard feature for how some ECUs advance timing during auto trans shifts, I went over to the Greddy EMU for this-- EMU has some other neat features too, lots of additional map options such as further reducing timing with high coolant temps, or IAT, logging knock etc. But it costs more and requires a split second enricher for the o2 side of the house. For manual tranny Tacos, the FIC is a great bang for the $$- if on auto I guess you can lift a little every time a shift happens. I would assume the URD units have the same issue, anyone noticing with URD kits ping during shifts? Maybe fixable with more aggressive all-around retard, but now your cheating yourself of some power...

 

Gadget had lots of issues but I think he used a MAP ECU 3 which doesn't have pulse width tuning. The FIC 6 does and it should help tune the injectors down. You're exactly right, MAF tuning is not the way to fix this. In fact, the MAF should be capped low and MAP tuning conducted as much as possible.

Brice, see what your MAF voltage is when you get about 1psi of boost and cap it there. Do all boost tuning using the FIC installed MAP sensor. But before you do any tuning, you need to adjust your pulse width until you are getting an acceptable idle.

 

Yep, get the FIC's fuel map to give you the least amount of fuel trims in all regions of vacuum, to assist this is not just the right fuel map percent value, but also injector lag timing settings as you let the piggy do the job better when it can compensate for that difference as well.

As far as tuning into boost, its been a very interesting thing for me. I like to give the OEM ECU as much control as possible as the OEM mapping was done by experts, with expert equipment over many many hours- why I would not want to cap the MAF ASAP and tune via MAP from there is now the OE ECU thinks the load is lower than it really is and that will keep OEM timing artificially aggressive.

But then I looked at a 5vz FIC map done by Churches tuning once and he avoided the MAP all together and used MAF and RPM to tune the timing retard map, and that guy knows his stuff!! So it got me thinking that actual air flow and RPM is a more accurate representation of actual CFM and air in the motor, load etc and maybe made for a safer more accurate timing retard scheme in boost (assuming of course he was still looking at boost when tuning this map).

For TRD supercharger setups, IMO will not see the MAF ever top out, so its a great resource to see actual air flow at all the loads, the FIC MAP sensor a nice resource to see when said air is in a boosted state. On a turbo setup I would imagine you will need to use the MAF clamp feature, somewhat blinding the ECU of a variable towards load after that and you need to be smart about your mapping post clamp- not just for fuel accuracy, but more aggressive timing retard as the ECU will not see the additional air flow anymore. *

* a reason why I feel MAF based fuel tuning is horribly outdated, reducing a MAF signal to tune for larger injectors will come with a nasty side effect of increased OEM ECU timing advance- and could mess up auto tranny shift points as well.

 

You CAN use MAF's but they don't tune quite as well as a MAP sensor with boost. Besides that, the biggest issue, is that MAF's will double measure air flow when you release the gas pedal at boost causing the engine to go way rich and may staul.

Just my recommendation and how I plan to tune mine. It will require a bit more tuning effort but the idea is the stock ECU doesn't tune anything when in boost. All timing and fuel will be run by the FIC. Unfortunately you can't advance but all you really need to do is retard timing.

 

I did the calculations and came up with a injector pulse time of 6ms at 100% volumetric efficiency to obtain a 14.7.

EDIT: just read all of your comments, I'm using the MAP sensor to tune, but if I make changes to the the MAF table at idle I can make it richer or leaner, but if I mess with the O2 at idle nothing happens...Not sure why this is, and I am idling in closed loop.

 

An issue I had with a turbo IS300, but if I recall the Greddy EMU had a map I used to clamp the MAF momentarily when I let off the throttle. The Supra MAF has a mechanical feature to prevent this issue.

Bringing back memories of doing a setup, finding an issue, trying to fix it either with a mechanical fix or software/tune, then find another issue, rinse and repeat haha.

 

MAF will work but its not the right way. Hope that pulse width change helps. Changing the O2 map will only affect long term fuel maps; no big changes immediately.