Run to the Hills! - Jason's Completely Stalled Colorado GTFO Build

I personally don't like how three link works for speed purposes. Which is the only front option for links and only option for the rear if you want to keep then rock gas tank.

4 linking is the way to go for the rear..but that's a huge deal. Way overkill for what we want.

And just because you mentioned it I'm gonna say it again, jeeps suck. I had no idea till I got to ride in a new rubicon and drive it. Wow. Idk why people buy those things.

But all good points on solid front.

The biggest helpful thing to do is wheel more. It'll help dial in your style and let you figure out your wants and needs ect. Then when your ready to drop 10k on a overhaul, you'll know what youll want one way or the other.

Also helpful to drive other people's rigs if they let you. I know I let people drive mine if they want to

 

I did not say anything good about Jeeps other than they come from factory with a straight axle that can be beefed up relatively easily

I agree with you...those JK Rubicons are the most overpriced thing ever. People go crazy about them; but I think they are way too expensive for what they are. I have driven a few and there was nothing impressive for what they cost. Have to say though...they do come with lockers front/rear, d44 axles and a tcase with pretty low gears. So in drive train parts alone, they absolutely beat anything toyota sells without a doubt.

dual triangulated 4 link is what many people end up going to. Yes, it is true you "can" keep the gas tank in the stock location with a 3 link, but it is still a shit ton of work. But a 4 link definitely has a LOT more custom fabrication involved.

By the way, you can do a 4 link in the front of a tacoma. It has been done.

Good idea on wheeling more to determine what one's needs are. I wheeled the crap out of my tacoma with IFS in the southwest until I realized I needed a straight axle in the front. so I made an informed decision based on my context. I still think it is the most awesome mod ever

 

Thanks for stopping by, Osvaldo!

I'll tell you what, man, it was really nice to actually open up that box! Now it's just waiting on me!

Thanks for your input on the SAS side of things! I have a whole bunch to learn before I ever make the call one way or the other. Thankfully, I know that I'll be running MT IFS for at least a couple years until I get some money saved up again to take the truck to the next level.

So how does your D60/14 bolt setup do on the freeway? What about over washboards and potholes on dirt? I'm sure it slays it crawling, obviously, but I'm genuinely curious how it does in those areas.

One of the things that appeals to me about LT is the added track width, especially if I ran a Tundy axle. My RTT is mounted high, and I love it that way for the camping that I do. But it is definitely a little more tippy with the sway bar removed. How is yours that way?

 

Firewall Tubbing for 35s - Sealing and Finishing

Bedliner is done! I wanted to shoot for three coats, but this is such a shitty, messy job, I decided that I'm good with two.

PRIMER AND FIRST COAT FROM YESTERDAY




DROP CLOTH AND TARP




BLACK PAINT

As I mentioned in my previous post, I decided to hit the areas of the inner fender that didn't get liner with some basic black paint. This was mostly for rust prevention and to match up with the bedliner as well as the rubber close outs that will come last.




SECOND (FINAL) COAT OF BEDLINER

The goal here was to get coverage over the entire underneath surface where it's going to see a lot of rock strikes, mud, etc. Obviously, I wanted to make sure that the tubbed area was covered as well. I made sure to go just beyond the boundaries of the first coat from yesterday to really seal everything up.




All in all, I'm pretty happy with the results! I did make sure to go back every 20 minutes or so and very slightly brush the liner back up as gravity and the viscosity of the material were both working against me.


NEXT STEPS

At this point, I need to mask everything off to protect it from the elements. We're supposed to get some cold weather and snow this week, and I still need to hit the tubbed area with a coat of Flex Seal just to be safe. The fact that it's an aerosol will help ensure a nice even coverage over the liner in that area and be a good insurance policy for waterproofing.

 

Jason...did you see this stuff? https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/a-better-edge-trim-from-trail-toys.376005/#post-10307954
I know you probably have your fenders trimmed nice Like Rob's, but thought this was a cool product

 

better for the crawler box to wait on you than the other way around

My SAS drives great anywhere, but that's because I have a 3-link suspension with coilovers. 3-link is the best of both worlds when it comes to off road performance and driving comfort.

If you do a SAS with leaf springs, on the other hand, that can be a totally different story. There's really no comparison. A link suspension is the way to go if you are looking to get the best truck manners driving on/off-road.

In terms of track width...i have full width 1 ton axles. The front axle, hub to hub, is about 72" wide I think. Don't quote me on that, I don't remember from the top my head. The rear is about the same as the front. They provide a LOT of stability. The wider the axles, the more stable the vehicle.

I might need to add a custom sway bar to the front at some point for even more stability.

Great work! If you end up doing a SAS in the future, you might have to cut some holes that will ruin the great work you did in there

 

Awesome input, bud! Thanks a ton for chiming in.

I'm glad to hear that you can go SFA and still have decent manners on the road and on higher speed stuff on the dirt.

My sole frame of reference for SFA is my 71 CJ5. I did a shackle reversal on it which helped immensely, but it's still an old, short wheelbase, leaf sprung vehicle. Crawls like a badass, but it sucks balls over washboards and potholed fire roads.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!


I'm already in a complicated, love-hate relationship with this eternal tub job. I don't want to even think about hacking it all up again!

 

No pictures, but my buddy and I pulled the RTT off for the winter.

Always good to wait until it's snowing rather than doing it when the sun is shining!

At least now the truck can live in the garage until I'm done sealing up the driver side tub.

 

Man this looks good. I envy your patience and meticulousness. Beneath the seam sealer, paint, and flex seal of my tubbing is some dirty work. At least it is covered and leak free.

 

Leak free is the important part, man!

I catch myself wondering sometimes if the 35s are really worth all of the shit that's required for them. Between tubbing and regearing, not to mention the cost of the tires and wheels themselves, it's a huge deal.

But then I see my truck, and I experience just how awesome it does off road, and I know that it's totally worth it!

 

It's coming together well. Looking forward to making it over there to see everything soon.

 

Trust me, a link suspension is just a different league all in itself.

Leaf springs work, and are cheaper to design; but it is really ancient technology. They are OK in the rear axle I guess; but they are just not that great when used with front steering straight axles. I am sure automotive engineers knew that a long time ago; but kept using leaf springs cause they are cheaper.

[Funny and ironic side note: the guys from the monster truck jam learned about the positive benefits of link suspensions a long time ago. Call them red necks, but they got their suspension designs right before the rest of the off road world did hahaha.]

Anyway, eventually the market caught up though. Jeeps stopped using leaf springs a long time ago; even the Ford Super Duty got rid of leaf springs in their front ends. They are just a better solution for suspension systems.

Leaf springs do two jobs at once, and that's why they suck. They locate the axle under the vehicle while doing the suspension work all at the same time and from the same part. When leaf springs sag, it changes the axle/pinion angle, which affects steering (if they sag pretty bad), awful ride quality, etc. On rear axles, if you have a lot of engine power, they can twist very easily which changes rear pinion angle too. One change that happens to leaf springs begins affecting everything else cause they do everything form the same part!

With a link suspension, on the other hand, the links do the job of locating the axle under the vehicle and managing its movement, while the coil springs do their suspension job separately from the links. Well, it is all part of the same suspension system; but you have different parts doing separate jobs. That contributes to better fine tuning qualities, which translates into better driving and handling characteristics. If something starts degrading in one part it does not throw everything else off as leaf springs tend to do.

One more thing, with links, if you feel the ride is to stiff or too soft; you simply swap coils with different rate ones. It is an easy job and Coils are relatively cheap. Also, to adjust ride height you simply turn the adjustment collars on the coilovers.

But with leaf springs, if they are too stiff or too soft, or if your rig is too tall or the leafs are flattened out; you are really up for a headache. It just takes so much work to deal with them: adding leafs, removing leafs; waiting until they settle to see what the deal is, etc.

Anyway, hope this makes sense if you ever decide to go the SAS in the future.

 

@jubei777

what was the question? SUA vs SOA? Bypasses VS smooth bodies?

 

Thanks for another well thought out response!

A linked front definitely sounds appealing. Are you running leafs in the rear? Also, is there a resource online that you've come across that explains the different link schemes and what the various trade off would be? I'm very much a noob with this stuff, but I'm a smart enough dude, I'm sure I could get the gist fairly quickly.

Thanks again!

 

Yea, I have leaf springs in the rear end of the truck. But that will change in the future. My next "big" project will be to do a link suspension for the rear axle.

Google "4wheel underground." The guy that runs the company specializes on link suspensions for toyotas. On his website he has a TON of information about the different types of link suspensions, important terminology, etc.

If you have patience, Pirate4X4 has tons of information buried on that forum; years and years of it.

I know just the basics of link suspensions. But if you like to learn new stuff; I bet you will love reading about it. Once you start getting into it; curiosity will get the best of you and you will probably end up linking your truck at some point in the future. That's what happened to me

It's really fascinating stuff if you are the type of guy that enjoys learning about technical/science stuff. There's a ton of geometry, math and maybe even physics involved behind a link suspension.

 

Thanks for the heads up, Robert!

I subscribed to the thread just in case I can't swing it with my flares.

 

Thanks, bud!

When I finally get the tub job finished, we'll have to get together and check out the rigs!

That's been one of my favorite things about TW so far. Seeing other trucks gives me ideas about where to take mine. Maybe one of these days I'll even get to see that trail limo of @3378jakesr5's! I wanna check out his SAS and Dana 44!

 

Hey Tim, I'm actually just getting input regarding suspension options in general.

I know I'm gonna be MT for a few years at least, but at some point I'm gonna want to go next level with this truck. So in my mind, the big question is SAS vs. LT; understanding that the truck would still be an overland, extended trip truck, not a desert racer/huck truck or a rock crawler.

I'm sure I'd have other questions later, but your general thoughts on this would be appreciated!

 

It all depends on what the endgame is. IMO for exploring the western US a MT or LT setup is the way to go. There are just too many quality bolt on parts out there that make it pretty easy to build a truck to camp out off. This also varies on which vehicle you want to use as a base. Now a SAS can be built to ride great on and off road but that takes time, money, and skills that not all people have. But it does get rid of the weak links on the IFS.

IMO bypass shocks are not needed for the average off road truck. They are loud and require maintenance that most people don't want or can't do or have to pay for. King's IBP IMO is the way to go, it's not clicking in your ear on every terrain change and you can tune the bump zone to match your up/down travel ratio. Same thing with hydro bump stops, even with the nylon contact pads can get down right annoying every time you hit them. Now I know buzzwords like bypasses/hydro bumps/IBP/extended travel sells but 90% of TW doesn't need anymore than a 2.0 shock. Until someone runs heat strips and spends the time to valve them properly I stand by it. Hell buna wiper seals melt out at about 250*F and the oil isn't good for much more than that in all shocks that aren't sold as a race shock with Viton seals and $20/quart oil.


There's always going to be a compromise when it come to bolting/building a suspension on a truck VS building a tube chassis. And frankly it is all about what you want to do with the truck and your budget.

 

I don't know man. Personally, I think it is a waste of time and resources to dress up an IFS with a MT set up on these trucks. Might as well keep the factory IFS with some aftermarket coilovers like ICON or KING and call it a day. That's what I did for years and it worked great. Didn't bother replacing the upper control arms or anything. Just the coilovers alone made a huge difference.

A LT, if done right, it ain't cheap by any stretch of the imagination. And again, it is just waaaaaaaaaay overkill for somebody that just intends to do mild recreational trail rides.

But I agree with you about bypass shocks. Incredibly unnecessary for the average person. It is amazing how many people waste money on them just for the "cool" factor. That stuff is meant for real hard core stuff; especially in racing where people are really pushing their suspension really hard at very high speeds for long periods of times.

For the average joe that drives on the highway 99% of the time and goes wheeling 1-2 a month a regular shock is more than enough.