Run to the Hills! - Jason's Completely Stalled Colorado GTFO Build

Hey @3378jakesr5! You mind adding to the discussion on LT vs. SAS for an overland focused truck? I'm just thinking way ahead after a few years of enjoying the truck in its mid-travel form on 35s.

You're running a D44 and the stock rear axle on 35s, right?

Thanks!

 

Guitar amps have improved a lot over the years. However, when it comes to tube amps, the same old principle still applies: in order to get good distortion and sustain the tubes need to run hot, which requires the volume to be cranked up.

But there's a way to have fun if you ever get a tube amp again without going deaf or upsetting your neighbors: Get an amp "attenuator"! See, it's all about spending more and more money Google it, there are several companies that sell them. Without going too crazy into the technical aspects of it; an attenuator is a piece of gear that absorbs the loud volume coming from the amp before it reaches the speaker. This allows you to crank your tube amp all the way up while playing at a very low volume - depending on how you set it up. A LOT of electric guitar players use them these days both live and in the studio. I have a THD Hotplate connected to my Carvin. There are other brands that are even better.

You'll be fine with 5.29 gears and 35"-37" tall tires. Things start changing dramatically on the highway when you go bigger than that. I made a conscious decision to sacrifice highway performance in order to increase offroad capability. But remember, I have a 4cyl. With a bigger engine things would be different.

I think the biggest challenge with my SAS was setting the steering with that big of an axle. There's not a lot of room to put things under there in order to get all the flex you want while keeping the ride low.

In terms of your CJ5, I think it might be too short of a wheelbase. You can always stretch the frame. It is a common modification that many people have done when they link those jeeps.

 

I think you already know the answer you're going to get. Jake has swapped two yotas before he turned 20. It's kind of his thing.

 

Yep, I totally get that with tubes. I don't have a lot of experience with them, but that has definitely been something I've noticed. Finding a decent clean tone was a challenge too.

Have you done any setup work on your own on your guitar? I haven't played mine in a few months, and I'd like to double check the action, as I noticed that I'm getting just a little dead fret issue here and there.

Also, how did you learn? I've been hit and miss with instructors, and I don't have a lot of budget either. I have some good books, so maybe I'll knuckle under and try to get back into it that way. I miss playing, but my skills are basically gone which makes it really easy to just not play out of frustration.

Thanks for all of the input, man!

I'm really intrigued by SAS...

I'm sure I'd get slayed on the SAS thread, but I wanted to follow up on the idea of doing a linked D44 front and a linked rear with 37s. Brace for the question storm...

• What rear axle would you recommend for a SAS-based all-purpose rig?
• What sort of steering setup?
• Since I'd want to link both ends, what sort of spring and shock setup would you run?
• I've seen ORI struts and they look cool, but it sounds like they're not the best idea for an all-purpose rig especially if you somehow lose the charge and your shit turns into a lowrider. Would you do coilovers?
• What purpose do the dual spring COs serve? (I think I know the answer...)
• What would you do for bumps?
• Do you have to run limit straps?
• How do you think the Magnussen SC and URD 7th would play with a drivetrain with 37s, 5.29s, and a crawl box?

Thanks for the input!

 

You don't want to do 37s and D44s i can tell you that. Not with the blower especially. You'll want stronger axles F/R for 37s.

And again, if you want reliable, stay the hell away from ORIs. If they go flat or loose a seal whatever. Your fucked. Blow a shock in a coilover? no problem. You can at least get home.

Limit straps and bumps are required no matter the suspension setup if you want to save your shocks. Its to keep your shocks from either hold the weight of the axle(droop) and getting slammed by the truck (bumps). Shocks are always the "limiting" factor in suspension no matter what. Well, aftermarket stuff.

Dual rates can be a bit odd to undertand and determine the rate. Its a math equation. No one ride is the same as it varies on weight of the truck(duh) but also angle of the shocks themselves or the ratio of travel they are. (are the shocks vertical and on the axle or on the trailing arms and angled)

SAS is pretty cool really. And honestly not overly complicated if you think about how 3 linking works. What sucks is making it work with our trucks

 

Great points.

Honestly, if I were to go SAS, I think I'd be perfectly happy (famous last words) with 35s and a ride height around where I'm at now. I love the look and the utility of it. Jake's @3378jakesr5 2nd Gen seems to do pretty well running the D44/35 combo, though he did break his shit while snow bashing recently

I'm not an idiot by any stretch, but a lot of this, whether LT or SAS is still new to me. But it's freaking fascinating, and it appeals to the engineer side of me.

I've heard the term lever ratio thrown around. Specifically that you need to know the lever ratio and the corner weight to properly choose coil spring rates on LT rigs. That's not what you're referring to though, right? Or is it? (Again, I'm an admitted noob when it comes to this stuff) And the dual rates seem like a way to get a progressive rate out of two linear rate springs. Am I even close on that?

 

Yes Lever ratio. Knew there was a fancy word for it That vital and its also why no ones setup is ever the same(generally speaking).

yea you'd be fine with 35s and D44. Thats the max size for that axle thats recommended. Sorta like 35s for us. Though i think the argument could be made that 33s are that for our trucks.

Suspension is pretty cool no doubt. Fancy geometry really

 

First, awesome build. I've read most of it previously. You put in some real work on the tubbing.

About the bumper...

I had a TG rear on my 2nd gen, and really liked it. I think they look even better on the 1st gens.

I want to carry my spare under the bed, but My aftermarket hitch won't allow it. I think (or maybe I'm just hoping) that the TG bumper's integrated hitch sits more rearward; hopefully enough that I could get my spare up there. Could I get you to take a measurement for me sometime?

 

Thanks for stopping by!

Still working on the tubbing, but thanks!

And no problem. I can grab a measurement tomorrow. Where do you want me to measure from and to?

 

Do you still have the stock spare tire hoist under your bed?

 

If so, could you tell me how far it is from the hoist to the edge of the hitch

 

I don't.

But I can mount it back up and get that measurement no problem! I'll get it tomorrow morning.

 

No no. Don't worry about that. I'll just find a different point of reference. That was just the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. Ha ha. I'll crawl under there tomorrow and find a good spot.

I really appreciate it.

 

Haha! It's really not a big deal. A couple bolts to hold it on. Piece of cake!

 

All this sas and LT talk got me looking back at all the old 1st gen builds I watched on both sides of that fence. Really good stuff, Im personally still undecided for which I would prefer but I have alot of time to decide. Really just have to take your truck and experience different trails, get stuck, break stuff, and form a good sense of direction for the build.

 

Tube amps are really ancient technology. But once you dial them in, they are absolutely amazing! Still considered the best choice among pro players.

Working on guitars is easy. Tons of Youtube videos about how to do set ups and repairs. You should always adjust/tweak things until it sounds good in your ears and feels good in your fingers, not because you want to reach specific measurements. Soldering the electronics is a bit time consuming and annoying. I HATE dealing with those soldering irons!

I have taken guitar lessons on/off over the years; more "off" than anything LOL. I think the best way is to learn specific songs you like - as opposed to playing mindless scales or exercises for hours. Now with Youtube there are thousands of people offering guitar lessons on how to play specific songs. Each song requires specific techniques, chords and scales; so you are actually playing music as you practice as opposed to the traditional method.

Blackdawg provided great answers below about your SAS questions, but these are my thoughts since I disagree with some of what he said

• What rear axle would you recommend for a SAS-based all-purpose rig?

If you use a front D44 or toyota axle, you can keep your factory rear axle. They are good up to 37" tires (but that's pushing it to the max; if you do not wheel like a maniac it will not break)

• What sort of steering setup?

Hi steer in a double-shear configuration with hydraulic assistance ("hydro assist")

• Since I'd want to link both ends, what sort of spring and shock setup would you run?

I would just use regular coilovers from any known manufacturer like KING, ADS, Fox, etc. No need to go with bypass system. Waste of money unless you are racing.

• I've seen ORI struts and they look cool, but it sounds like they're not the best idea for an all-purpose rig especially if you somehow lose the charge and your shit turns into a lowrider. Would you do coilovers?

I would not use ORIs. From what I've read they require way too much maintenance, you have to keep a bottle of nitrogen or whatever gas they use with you at all times, blah, blah. Too much of a hassle. I'm too lazy for that kind of stuff hahah.

• What purpose do the dual spring COs serve? (I think I know the answer...)

My understanding is that with dual spring coilovers [the most commonly used with SAS] you can achieve an initial softer rate than can transition to a firmer rate as the suspension changes/cycles depending on the type of terrain and speed. Try doing that with a leaf sprung SAS....it ain't gonna happen LOL.

I think most toyotas end up with a 100lbs difference at least between upper and lower coils. You can really fin tune them into a great ride. But that's the beauty of coilovers vs leaf springs.

• What would you do for bumps?

If you wanna be the coolest guy in the group you can get air bumps. If you want practicality, just get good ole poly bumps. They work great and are cheap. There is another option by installing poly rings at the bottom of the shaft of the shock. Basically, it does not allow the shaft to go all the way up. Lot of people are doing that now; it's cheap. That's what I have

• Do you have to run limit straps?

Technically, you should always limit your travel in order to protect the shocks. Otherwise the shocks will be holding all the weight of the axle during droop.

• How do you think the Magnussen SC and URD 7th would play with a drivetrain with 37s, 5.29s, and a crawl box?

I have always heard from guys that have super chargers and SAS they absolutely love the combo. What's not to like about more power!! Remember, all the low gears in the world cannot make up for the lack of horsepower. That's why you see guys that have V8s with big horse power, they do not need to go with super low gears like we toyota guys do.

In theory, it is great to get more power out of a smaller engine vs getting a bigger naturally aspirated engine. But in real life, however, forced induction is nothing but a money pit. Anybody saying otherwise is simply lying about it. Forced induction always ends up being too much money to make it work right. By the time you add the parts, labor [if you cannot do it yourself] and the tunning you are deep into your wallet. Plus then you have future maintenance to pay attention to.

Yea, big PITA to do a link suspension. There's just not a lot of room to put the parts!

I agree with everything you said except the first statement. A built D44 with REID knuckles and chromo shafts can handle 37"s easily.

Now, a stock D44...no way.

Definitely the famous last words.

You will want to go bigger....everybody does And after going through all the work and money of a SAS...trust me...you will want to go as big as strong as you can.

 

No need to worry with those couple bolts. Whenever you get time, could you measure from the front (closest to the rear axle) side of this bed cross support to the edge (also closest to the alxe) of the hitch? No hurry at all. Thanks again.

 

@rngr

Posted this in your build.

 

I guess i should relpy to this thread eventually... SAS is nice because you can build it strong enough that you could make it less likely to brake things on the trail, the only reason why i wouldnt is because its a custom thing so that would make finding spares hard to find. Thats the reason why the true expo rigs are very common vehicles, because spares are easier to find.

On that same note if you build a solid axle swap stronger then what you are going to be needing it for. The dana 44 i have is the strongest dana 44 you can find for the front, its a high pinion, half inch thick tubes, and a larger ring gear then a standard 44, i put a 3/8 inch thick diff cover on it and its taken its fair share of hits and is doing just fine.

The only reason why that shaft broke is because it was a factory shaft out of a 78 chevy that was in a collision (look at my brake caliper mount.) the chromoly shafts are a lot beefier and i dont see them having any problems in the future.

 

Hope that made some sense, little loopy still