Manual transmission Fan Club and BS thread (All Generations Welcome)

Did you know: the Lexus uses the same 3.5 liter Otto/ Atkinson engine and gets about 331 hp out of it compared to our Tacomas 268 hp? The Lexus IS tuned differently, has a different torque curve and requires premium fuel. The Lexus also generally shifts at higher rpm than we Tacoma guys shift at. I think the Tacoma is tuned for more lower rpm torque as its a truck. It's maximum torque is at 4600 rpm and redlines just a hair above 6000 rpm. Must be very loud at that rpm though I've never been there. The Tacoma 3.5 engine has over 11:1 compression. I was wondering if anyone would think it wise or practical to tune my 3.5 the same as the lexus to gain the additional 63 or so horsepower and what effect it would have on pulling torque at what different rpm? That compression is certainly high enough to offer practical use of the premium fuel. Myself I always use tier 3 fuels. Always premium though the owners manual calls for a minimum of 87 octane. I mostly use Shell nitro 93 octane premium and have noticed a 1 mpg gain over regular tier 3 fuel. For a list of tier 3 fuel providers search it on google. Shell nitro premium 93 has been tested by independent industry engineers and has been found to be the only fuel that keeps injectors, valves and cylinders spotless when used regularly. Even one tankful of the stuff will remove 65 percent of the buildup gunk in your engine. I use it almost exclusively. It's pricey. $3.09 a gallon vs $2.39 a gallon for the lowest priced 87 octane fuel in my area around New Milford Ct. I'm old, 67 and I paid more for my 2016 Tacoma TRD 4x4 sport with manual six speed than I paid for my first house on Long Island in 1978! So I want to take care of it. My plans are to trade it in for an exact duplicate in 2020 but at my age and retired on a fixed income I may not be able to afford another new one, or even be alive or physically able to continue to drive manuals or in 2020 there may be no more manual shift vehicles available. Today's proponents of the automatic transmissions claim better gas mileage, faster speeds than their manual counterparts. Plus they sell the shift yourself by offering a sport mode on the automatic that lets you select your own gears independently without need for a clutch peddle. Believe me it's just not the same! The 67 GTO offered the same concept with their automatics. It was called the "his and her " shifter. She just put it in D and he could swing the floor shift sideways into a 1-2-3 mode for a simulated sport feel. BS! So any ideas about retuning the 3.5 v6 to Lexus standards? Practical? It has the compression to burn premium. Any ideas guys? Thanks. Dannyblues

 

Too funny...when saw mine listed in the ad, I about broke the sound barrier getting to the dealership. Asked to see the truck and the sales guy says "You know it's a manual?" I feigned deep disappointment...it helped the negotiation process

 

Your Tacoma can handle pulling in 2nd gear at 5mph? I can not take 2nd gear below 10 mph and step on the gas at all without the truck starting to vibrate/rumble and tell me how much it doesn't like it. Anything below 10 mph and I need to shift to 1st.

In fact, even at 10 mph in 2nd I get zero or very, very minimal acceleration for a bit no matter how far down I push the gas pedal. It is a good 2-3 seconds before "normal" acceleration kicks in.

 

I rolled out of the dealer in 3rd yesterday, first take off in the truck as I was scared I would get into reverse since its over where I am used to 1st being. Was a bit downhill getting from drive to road but pulled right out of the lug.

 

Ok first of all, 2 way different vehicles. Truck vs Car. AFAIK The tacoma already shifts pretty high to see those power numbers, and you want to take that higher to get max HP, but then farther down in your post you mention not being able to afford a new vehicle...I HIGHLY suggest you take care of your truck then and not try to get more HP. Toyota engineers above all strive for reliability. Granted the third gens have issues, but that's still their goal, otherwise it wouldn't be a Toyota. Pretty much as soon as you start changing stuff, you're wrecking the reliability. ESPECIALLY increasing horsepower on the engines. ESPECIALLY a new model engine. You can say all you want its the exact same as the one in the Lexus, but I highly doubt that, I'm sure there were changes made here and there. You don't just magically gain more HP and less torque with a tune.

Secondly, You'd basically have to take a Lexus ECU and try to hack it in to your truck, because these ECU's are locked tight. If you're talking about a standalone ECU or something like Map ECU, that's different, but any person telling you they can 'retune' your truck for you is selling snake oil.

As for shifters and such, it's already been proven that the Automatics actually ARE better than manuals. Numbers don't lie, they get better MPGs, they get better acceleration, they shift faster. Manuals are only still sold because Toyota still knows there's a core group of us that still want them so they try to bolster sales a little bit by keeping this transmission type in service, and since throughout the rest of the world it's still a major seller.

 

Sounds like a good plan you had!

 

Paragraphs man paragraphs.

 

I have been looking for a manual to test drive for several months in the San Diego area without luck. Went by Toyota Escondido today and they had just received a manual 4 banger. Wanted to like it but too underpowered unfortunately. Retest drove the v6 automatic. Now have tried the automatic 3 times did not notice the issues on the auto. Hoping to test a v6 manual. The dealer said I would have to order as all manuals coming in are pre sold on order.

 

Yes the manuals are hard to come by. If your dealer doesn't have one any other nearby dealers are reluctant to swap the manual with them for you. I had two manuals at nearby dealers bought right out from under me. One was just rolling into the dealership still on the delivery rig. Since it was already July 2016 I guess any of the manuals ordered by the individual dealer for their own personal inventory were already sold. My dealer found mine about 100 miles away and he drove it from the other dealership to mine for me. It was black just as I wanted with only the options I requested they install already installed: mud flaps, black side step, weathertech mats, wheel locks and the towing package. Everything else I wanted came standard on my 2016 Tacoma TRD sport. I didn't get the smart key or moonroof with Bose system and blind spot indicators nor did I get the auto light option. But it has everything else you can think of I guess including beautiful black and grey mag 17 inch wheels. With the black truck and the dark tinted windows plus the black side steps and black roll up cargo cover it reminds me of the bat mobile in truck form. True black is difficult to keep clean but I manage very well. I do have a question for anyone who knows about how do I reply or post to an individual post I like rather than as I'm doing now just posting at the end of a long list of posts that includes varying subjects. I'd particularly like to respond to the gentleman who responded to my post about the possibility of increasing horsepower by only tuning my 3.5 v6 Tacoma to the same standards as the Lexus that shares the identical 3.5 v6 as my Tacoma when the Lexus has about 63 more horsepower and is it a feasible safe change that wouldn't void my warranty but may only require I use premium fuel. I'd like to know if anyone has an answer to that as well. I don't know how to respond to one individuals post. Thanks for any help. I'm new at this forum. Dannyblues

 

Click on the "Quote" tab to the lower right of the post you want to respond to.

 

Your shifting method of using the clutch only to shift into first or reverse then shifting without the clutch is referred to as floating gears among semi drivers who are dealing with an 18 speed gearbox that's actually a six speed with a button to split gears. The jury is still out on floating gears. Of course the fleet truck owners expect the driver to double clutch and rev match all the gears but that sure would give you massive muscles in your left clutch use leg. So many of those over the road semi guys float gears by rev matching without the clutch and put hundreds of thousands of miles on those trannys but still I've heard it's not the best practice. I'm not a mechanic but I've read that shifting without the clutch isn't a good practice overall. I've done it in my 2016 Tacoma TRD sport 4x4 and I've double clutched up and down the gears which I found is a complete waste since the Tacoma 6 speed manual is the slowest shifting vehicle except for the tractor trailers I've driven. But I always otherwise use the clutch all the time. I can only wish you many happy carefree miles of no maintenance driving considering your shifting habits. Dannyblues

 

@Dannyblues When you quote someone, it pops up the quote down in the space where you type...then you need to scroll down past the text of what you quoted and respond underneath. That way you're not quoting and then responding in 2 separate posts.

Also, paragraphs man, paragraphs!

So I'll just put it this way, if you change the tune on your vehicle for any reason, you can pretty much bet your ass the dealer is going to turn down any warranty claims you have for the powertrain.

I get tired of repeating this constantly, but here it is again- YOU CAN NOT VOID YOUR WARRANTY. You can chop the truck in half and weld it back together, and your warranty is still 100% still valid. BUT, if a part fails due to an aftermarket (read: not from the dealer/factory) modification of yours, the dealer or Toyota is in no way obligated to honor a warranty. As per the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealership is required to prove that your aftermarket part caused a failure in an OEM part. Now, that doesn't mean you can fight every little thing they tell you they aren't gonna do. If you put a new audio system in the truck and suddenly start frying all the fuses in the truck, chances are the dealer's gonna tell you to kick rocks on a warranty claim. However, I do believe you still have to take them to court for that, and trust me when I say they have better lawyers and will have paperwork backing up why they turned down your warranty. You can usually tell when its just a dealer being a douche and not wanting to honor a warranty (if you know a little about cars) and if you do a little bit of research in to whatever is wrong and show them that you know whats up, they'll usually fold and just get it done, but if they have verifiable proof that its your fault, the best lawyer in the world ain't gonna win that one for you.

So, that being said, if you plug something in to your truck that gives you more horsepower, and your engine explodes, or something goes wrong, you would be well advised to disconnect it asap before insurance sees it or you take it to a dealer. I don't THINK they have a way to actually verify that there was a piggyback on the ECU since any sort of logs on the ECU will read the false signals fed to it from the piggyback as everything ok, but for anything major, you can bet your ass Toyota and/or the dealer is gonna investigate everything they can to see what went wrong to avoid having to pay for it.

Like I said before, If you want toyota reliability and a full warranty with no issues, don't change a damn thing on the truck. If you want better performance in any part of the truck, or all of it, sell your warranty now and learn to fix stuff. Or make alot of money to pay something to fix it. You can't have both.

 

Thanks for replying to my inquiry about the feasibility and practically of retuning my tacomas 3.5 V6 to the same specs as the Lexus identical 3.5 V6 that produces 63 more horsepower but at much higher rpms and with the required use of premium fuel. It seems feasible since the Tacoma has a compression ratio above 11:1 which is pretty high and certainly high enough to warrant use of premium fuel if it was tuned differently. I believe the Tacoma 3.5 V6 was engineered to reach peak torque at 4600 rpm and maximum rpm just a hair above 6000 rpm and produce a maximum of 268 horsepower. I myself never shift over 3500 rpm and usually lower than that except once I hit about 4500 rpm in a mad rush to get around a mass of slow slow traffic. Man the engine sound was loud! Of course I've never redlined the tach. I was just curious about the difference between the two identical engines. As I understand it the Lexus is tuned to produce 63 more horsepower at very high rpm and redline with a different torque curve than the identical 3.5 V6 used in the Tacoma which is tuned to reach maximum torque at a lower rpm and without the need to run it at very high rpm shift intervals. After all it's a truck not a sports car. I was just curious if any one out there with experience as a master mechanic or auto engineer could explain how the two identical engines differ and would my Tacoma simply be able to be tuned to get the additional 63 horsepower the Lexus gets and what benefits or negative mechanical reaction would I get as I'm aware the Tacoma is tuned to run on regular gas but the lexus requires premium which by the way I use anyway. ( tier 3 fuel only with the use of Shell nitro premium 93 octane fuel that is an independently tested fuel that outperforms all others in keeping an engine as clean and well funtioning as the day it was made! Even one tank of shell nitro 93 will remove 65 percent of an old engines built up deposits especially injectors, valves and pistons ) AND NO Im not working for shell - I just did a lot of online research on it ). Toyota recommends the use of 87 octane fuel or higher in my Tacoma manual and with compression in this 3.5 V6 over 11:1 it is surely capable of optimal use of a premium fuel. I tried the regular 87 octane at a tier 3 station and found I get 1 more mpg with the shell premium. Is it worth it? Shell premium is $3.09 a gallon here in New Milford Ct and the cheapest tier 3 supplier sells 87 octane regular for about $2.26 a gallon. So it costs me 83 cents a gallon more to use the shell premium to get one more mpg but in terms of keeping the engine in as perfect condition as new I figure down the long road it will save me a lot of money in repairs on a crudded up engine. But id like also to take advantage of using the premium fuel to get the most out of it. Thats why I posted the question of the significant horsepower differences in the identical engine used both in the Lexus and my Tacoma. Thanks for any insightful useful reply. It goes without saying that I dont want to void my warranty and in fact I purchased an additional six year 100,000 mile bumper to bumper transferable warranty to boot Dannyblues

 

I'd like to say it was a plan lol...just organically worked out.

Side thread....80's fox body fan i see...titanium would seem! Had an 89 LX 5.0 with a steeda ground effects package me self...black. lil fvcker, i could sign my name and dot the 'i' on the tarmac...

Miss her

 

Mine is a 92 GT, bought it off the Original Owner back in 1998 and had it ever since.

 

Bought mine new in 89...was a beast...sold in 94. Went to the dark side in 2006 and bought me an original 86 IROC in kint condition. It now owns the garage. Better in corners and nicer lines...but damn i miss the grit on the pony

 

89 was a beast of a year, everyone I know that had one always said they were faster than any other year, I bet the IROC is sweet!

 

Shes a doll...havent put it in my album here but i will manana and give ya a shout out when i do.

The 89 was a mutant...3.23 economy gears but would walk over anything but the vettes. 3rd gear was the losing gear in it, but if ya worked it right, you could overcome