Bilstein 6112's with no differential drop

1) the truck comes stock with coilovers, just not adjustable.

2) having various spring perches on a shock body is the budget adjustment method. Threaded shock bodies with variable perch adjustments is a more sophisticated way, but still at expense of spring travel and all the negatives that go with it. There are no mechanical positives in using preload to lift.

I'm not saying you're statement is wrong. I know what they are sold for. And for some people in some situations I'm sure they are satisfactory.

I'm just saying it's not the best (or even right, IMHO) way to do it. It's a budget build, worthy in some situations, but not on a $35k ride.

Any suspension builder worth their salt will start with the correct spring application and work from there.

 

I'm fixing to order a set of Billy's myself...can someone tell me the pros/cons and differences in the 5100 vs 6112's??

 

I understand what the truck comes with. What I'm saying is adjustable coilovers for brands think (Icon, King, Toytec, Fox, OME, etc) with the threaded shock bodies you adjust height via spring perch and spinning them up/down IS preloading the spring. There's no other way to get around it. They are built for preload adjustments, up to a certain point without negatively affecting shock travel. What about professional race trucks with adjustable coilovers (threaded bodies and spring perches) - are you saying their stuff is "cheap lift?"

IE:

And yes, I know we're in a Bilstein 6112 thread which has adjustable spring collars at certain "notches"

 

I have 6112s with no diff drop. I believe you only need to think about diff drop if you go over 3 inches of lift. (BTW great shocks! Super nice ride)

 

Look at the the size of the 6112s vs 5100s. MUCH beefier. More dampening. Better ride. 60mm Piston vs 46mm Piston.
2.65" Body vs 1.95". 18mm shaft vs 14mm shaft

 

Ok thanks. I knew they were beefier but wasn't sure other than that. Would it be best to use stock coils or buy new ones? It's for a 3rd gen also

 

Diff drop has little to no effect on second/ turd gens. It's useless for them.

 

I'm not sure, since I have a 2nd gen. Email Marie@Headstrong Off-Road. SHe's great at answering technical questions and they have great prices.

 

They come with coils

 

No... If you actually read what he said you would know that he said that having an adjustable spring perch, IE what 5100s have on the bottom to allow you to move the spring collar up to get 'lift' is the cheap way to do it.

Having a spring collar on threads that can be spun one way or another to adjust lift is what he said is the 'best available' option, though it is still imperfect.

Both of these options are different methods of preloading the spring, in order to get lift. Both of these options will cause spring travel to suffer, especially up travel, because when the spring is under more preload it takes more of an input to get it to initially move. The force required to get it to initially move when there is no preload is in effect, nothing. The suspension will move to absorb even the smallest little dips and cracks in the road, but with preload, every pound of preload means that you will need at least a pound more force to BEGIN to actuate the spring, meaning that for all the little bumps in the road when the spring does NOT get enough force to actuate, these forces will be transmitted directly through the spring to the frame and, by the transitive property, your ass.

What he was saying is that to get to the ideal suspension setup in a racing truck is to start with a spring that is:
1) Long enough to give you the ride height you want
2) Has the proper spring rate to absorb impacts of your chosen application of the vehicle

then AFTER you have chosen the proper spring, you add shocks to it and tune from there. You DONT start with a built coilover and preload it to jack it up, you start with a spring that is the right size to begin with.

 

Your response should have been his. I was just pointing out that "preloading the spring" in such a general sense is not correct. There is much more to it, that you have pointed out. Also, these setups HAVE the correct size spring to begin with already from the manufacturer.

 

Checks out.

 

You are right about that, from the manufacturer all of these different variables are managed, albeit in the cheapest way possible. Really, REALLY stiff springs to control body roll and to keep the suspension from flopping around much over bumps because the really cheap shocks sure won't do shit for controlling the suspension. That works, but does any of that sound like it would be decent, much less an 'ideal' suspension setup? I mean sure, nothing on it will break and it functions properly, but this forum is kinda about spreading knowledge so that people can IMPROVE their trucks if I have learned anything in my time here

 

You're technically correct that the ideal way to set an adjustable coilover is to engineer a spring for the exact setting you choose but I think if Ohlins, KW, King, Fox, etc have products developed for dedicated race vehicles and they say it's okay to adjust the preload up or down a couple of inches to control ride height, you're probably okay doing it to $600 Bilsteins on a truck that spends 99% of its time on the street.

 

I mean I have a set of fox 2.5 dsc's with resis front and rear. They are a big step up over stock coilovers and shocks, don't get my meaning wrong. I just mean that typically a race truck isn't going to have off the shelf suspension products, they might have fox, king, icon, or Bilstein shocks and springs but they are custom, proprietary ones versus the off the shelf ones we can readily order for our trucks.
And as I explained before it's no so much of a problem to use preload, just a nuisance because your butt will feel every pound of it

 

That is completely subjective and has no basis being mentioned here when we're talking about factual information regarding preload and its uses.

 

A professional race truck where the truck is purpose built ground-up and really has nothing in common with a factory truck, no, but there are numerous amateur leagues where people don't have that kind of budget so they start with a factory truck and install off the shelf parts.

Frankly, that's the only application spending $3000+ on coilovers is really justified.

 

Okay if you'd rather me put it in different terms than the preload physically limits the ability of the springs to flex over/into bumps so the upward or downward force associated with said bump is transmitted directly through the preloaded spring, rather than the spring flexing and absorbing all of the hit. If the argument that its less comfortable doesn't sell you, how about the fact that all of that stress is going directly into the frame. I figured putting that in easy to understand terms made it just that... Sorry I offended you with my less than scientific analysis.

 

AKA: they still adjust height by preload, because guess what? The manufacturer says you can do it.

 

It doesn't change the limits of the spring. It just affects how much weight/compression it will need to start compressing or decompressing. It's like 2" of spring preload; well within the means of a 14" spring unloaded. It's not a big deal as you make it out to be.