4 or 5 inches or lift?

ok so heres my lift question thread.

just purchased a 04 4x4 DC tacoma with a 4" list installed

current setup
front: fabtech dirt logic 2.5 coilovers + 1.5 inch spacer = 4 inches
rear: 4 inch block
tires: 265/75-16

I mostly 4x4 on the sand with the occasinal dirt but no serious crawling or ultimate 4x4 with this rig (dont want to ruin the body on the narrow mountain trails on kauai). never going to be going over 10-15 mph on bumpy roads so not sure if full coilover setup would be worth it, but definitly want smooth ride on road.

anyway i really like the height that it sits at right now so i am looking for opinions on 4 or 5 inch setup.

heres what i was thinking of so far

option 1:
front: bilstein 5100 w/ebiach or OME w 883 coils for 3 inches suspension
rear: new leaf pack (i used wheelers 5 leaf before and gave good level height with the bilstein 5100 setup)
this with a 1 inch BL should net me the same height as i have now but CV's are at extreme angles.

option 2:
front: adjustable height coilovers set at 2 inches
rear: new leaf pack to match
this with a 2 inch BL should net 4 inches total and still gove good suspension travel

option 3:
front: tuff country 5" drop bracket lift with the big spacer and a good coilover under it set at stock settings (for best performace of the coilover)
rear: new leaf pack to match or whatever is needed to get it perfectly level to the front.


would option 3 ride the best being that the coilovers would be set at 0 and have no preload and have the most suspension travel?

seems like setting a coilover to the maximum 3 inches of lift kills the whole travel of the coilover and at that point the bilstein/OME setups would ride the same at that height.

any suggestions/ input?

 

Why do you need so much lift for tiny tires - you could get away with a 1.5" lift and be fine. Ride quality will suffer the higher you go as you noted about maxing out coil overs. 5100's set at 2.5" with your tire size would be more than enough along with a good leaf pack to match. The key is to get as little lift as possible for the tires you're running so you keep your low center of gravity. Drop bracket does almost nothing for offroading - just for looks. I'd put my money into the best adjustable coilovers, leafs and shocks I can get and stick to minimal lift w/o rubbing, but I would do it with the priorities of 1. low center of gravity 2. off roading capability 3. on road handling 4. looks. All in that order. What are your real priorities? That will make the decision pretty quick!

 

If you can afford it, run a 2.5" coilovers (Fox, King, etc) set at approx. 2", get a new leaf pack. If you think it's not tall enough (I ran 265s stock height so tires aren't an issue), run a 1" body lift and adjust the coilovers slightly taller. Could net just under 4" of lift but doing it the right way. If you can't afford that setup, option #1 in your list is the safest bet I'd say.

A tip, don't stack lifts, especially in the front. Don't run a spacer and coilovers underneath. Don't run lift springs over a Bilstein (or whatever) under a spacer. It just screams front end issues.

 

NO BLOCK LIFTS! AND ^^^^^ WHAT HE SAID!

 

Go with option #2 w/o BL. DO NOT add a drop bracket and definitely no lift blocks in the rear.

Just my opinion.

Good luck.

 

ext travel coilover with uca set at 3"

 

thanks for all the input people.

i guess questions is what would ride better/smoother on road? everyones suggestions put the coilovers at 2.5-3" of "lift", but wouldn't that preload the coilover reducing it's down travel and not giving full travel ability of that specific coilover reducing the effectiveness of the coilover.

wouldn't the Drop bracket lift and the coilovers set at stock "no lift" height provide for the most suspension travel out of the coilover, thus giving the best "ride" quality? (obviously assuming the rear is lifted properly with a new leaf pack to match)

would like to get coilovers but it seems setting them at 2.5 or 3 inches of lift will make the extra cost not worth it.

like i said not much hardcore offroading or crawling with this vehicle mostly for looks and the possibility to upgrade to 33" tires in the future. most of the time off road will be spent on the sand.

so probablly importance would rank something like 1)looks 2) on road handling 3) off road capabilities 4) low CG.

right now it sits at 4 inches of lift and doest feel like the center of gravity would be too high for anything i would be doing with this truck.

also the highest speed limit is 50mph on the Island that i live on so no need to be worrying about going 70mph on the freeways or anything like that.

basically which of the 2 front setups would provide for the most suspension travel and best ride characteristics?
King coilovers set to 2.5 inches of lift
King coilovers set to 0 lift but 5 inch DB lift to clear 33 inch tires.

last question is why is everyone so against body lifts? i was under the impression that if you get a good quality body lift with solid components the body lifts are a good way to get extra clearance for bigger tires without putting extra stress on the suspension.

 

when not maintained or a hard crash, the body can shift off the frame... it's happened to a couple folks back in the old forums pre TW... you could probably find pictures online somewhere with some searching...

for most folks though, the gap between body and frame isn't the prettiest but that can be resolved with gap guards... there is also the issue of the shifter in the center console not lining up since it's attached to the transmission and frame which does not rise with the body...

it's a personal preference... if you want to do it, then go for it... your money, your truck...

 

I'm definitely against lift stacking.

Go for 1 high quality lift for 2-3 inches of lift.

 

Pics of the new purchase?

 

@1HItaco Added some comments to your post in red:

i guess questions is what would ride better/smoother on road? everyones suggestions put the coilovers at 2.5-3" of "lift", but wouldn't that preload the coilover reducing it's down travel and not giving full travel ability of that specific coilover reducing the effectiveness of the coilover.

You'll never use the full travel of a coilover on the road, maybe except for a big ole speed bump, but you'll be going 5 mph so the bumpstops got you.

wouldn't the Drop bracket lift and the coilovers set at stock "no lift" height provide for the most suspension travel out of the coilover, thus giving the best "ride" quality? (obviously assuming the rear is lifted properly with a new leaf pack to match)

Drop bracket is like a chick with big boobies, but ones that are really saggy when she takes her bra off - looks good up until you're using them for what they're intended; it's not optimal like it would be with slightly smaller ones that stay bouncy and round. The point is you're leaving all of your important stuff like the engine and the transmission right next to the ground. You'd be better off to have less lift, but have your important components higher up off of the ground and deal with an inch or so less travel. This can be remedied with extended travel coilovers.

would like to get coilovers but it seems setting them at 2.5 or 3 inches of lift will make the extra cost not worth it.

Coilovers make or break your ride - the quality of your ride in the front is completely found in these. Extra cost is justified with a darn good ride on and especially on paved surfaces and especially on bumpy roads or off road.

like i said not much hardcore offroading or crawling with this vehicle mostly for looks and the possibility to upgrade to 33" tires in the future. most of the time off road will be spent on the sand.

33's will fit with some trimming and a good coilover / leaf pack lift. A lot of it depends on your wheel setup.

so probablly importance would rank something like 1)looks 2) on road handling 3) off road capabilities 4) low CG.

2 and 3 relate to center of gravity.

right now it sits at 4 inches of lift and doest feel like the center of gravity would be too high for anything i would be doing with this truck.

It's good you have something to compare it with.

also the highest speed limit is 50mph on the Island that i live on so no need to be worrying about going 70mph on the freeways or anything like that.

I'd lose my license in a week.

basically which of the 2 front setups would provide for the most suspension travel and best ride characteristics?
King coilovers set to 2.5 inches of lift
King coilovers set to 0 lift but 5 inch DB lift to clear 33 inch tires.

King's are continuously adjustable - you can crank them to exactly where you need them for your tires not to rub / achieve the height you want.

last question is why is everyone so against body lifts? i was under the impression that if you get a good quality body lift with solid components the body lifts are a good way to get extra clearance for bigger tires without putting extra stress on the suspension.

Body lifts that I've seen are usually to make a good suspension setup not have to be set with too much preload, but to clear the tires (usually 35's or some big / wide 33s). They do make your life rough when it comes to practical things like the shifter and buying bumpers from aftermarket companies unless you don't mind the gap for the bumpers. Again, your important stuff like your engine and your transmission haven't been raised at all and therefore are just as prone to banging on rocks and stuff as they were at factory height minus the increase from some taller tires. Good coilovers can be set with some preload and valved correctly for their application - once you plan on spending the money for high end suspension parts it'll give you greater flexibility on how to set them up and still have them perform.

Since looks are your number 1 priority then keep in mind the things you need to do to preserve the look of your truck with a body lift, but other than that it could work for you if you don't mind the rest of the things people have pointed out. I think most people here have a paradigm they go from that is basically an off roading vehicle that can handle decently on the street. Yours may be a little different. I prefer to have a set of good coilovers and springs between me and the ground. For me it makes driving a lot more fun and I don't have to worry about bashing things on the dirt and blm roads where I like to drive

 

Here is what I had/ did while mid-travel:
1. 2.5 ICON CO's set at 2-1/4"
2. Total Chaos UCA's
3. Deaver 8 pack leafs for the rear
4. 1" spacer on each front wheel, longer studs
5. Removed sway bar

I ran 285-75-16's without rubbing and did leave the pinch weld in tact. Wheels at that time were 16 hole OEM spare steelies.
Truck rode & drove better than OEM in my opinion and did very well off road.

Good luck.

 

thanks everyone for the awesome advise. really allowing me to think of how the "big pictre" really works and how i should plan my build from there.

here are some pics of the truck with the current suspension mentioned earlier.

 

right now running 1.25 inch spacers with stock 2017's.

was thinking of going bigger on the tire but dont want to re gear and everything ive read seems to point in the direction of needin a re-gear to accomodate the 33 inches tire that i want (285/75 or 255/85 both roughly same height). do i really need a re-gear not going to highway speeds? or is it more of a shifting at the correct time with the automatic transmission that requires the re gear?

went to this gearing calculator and says if going from 31" tire to 33" tire and stock gear is 4.1 i need 4.36. any suggestions/input?
http://www.rocky-road.com/calculator.html


also want to keep the same stance so either want to upgrade to something with a 8" width and 4 inch backspacing but seems impossible to find (must be Amazon or ebay with free or decent shipping to hawaii). if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great.


last question is about rear leaf packs. need to choose between deaver, dakar, or wheelers 5 leaf. wheelers 5 leaf is the only leafs that are left/right specific like the oem leafs. why arent the deaver and dakar not left/right specific and how to they not cause a crazy lean? only asking beacuse i previously had the wheelers 5 leaf and was OK the only thing i didn't like was the overload springs were never in a straight line with the rest of the pack and looked a little off. what would be the best leaf spring option to match a 3" front lift?

sorry for so many questions.

much thanks @Dalandser and everyone else that posted answers

 

I bought my truck new from the dealer... equipped with 4.30 gears and 265-70-16 BFG Rugged Trails. It was awful, I never used OD
As I posted earlier, running 285-75-16's and have 5.29's F/R. Truck runs great and pulls 1750rpm @ 70mph.
Having said this, don't trust that calculator.

Good luck.

 

A lot of gearing depends on how your truck was set up from the factory. Mine was totally different. I am running 5.29's and 37's. Had 4.56's when 33's. I go into some detail in my build about it twice lol.

@1HItaco your CV boot fins are really rubbing each other and your CV shaft is pretty much at the max operating angle possible. I would suspect you are wearing out the CV's and ball joints very quickly with that much lift and lift stacking.
It really isn't good to do, but do what you want lol. The main reason being if you ever did hit a big bump and compress the suspension until hitting the bump stops you would likely destroy your coilovers.

 

@1HItaco your CV boot fins are really rubbing each other and your CV shaft is pretty much at the max operating angle possible. I would suspect you are wearing out the CV's and ball joints very quickly with that much lift and lift stacking.
It really isn't good to do, but do what you want lol. The main reason being if you ever did hit a big bump and compress the suspension until hitting the bump stops you would likely destroy your coilovers.[/QUOTE]


thanks for the heads up. just got this tuck about a month ago and setup was from previous owner. I enjoy the ride height and look of the truck but the current suspension setup is also a concern of mine.

the previous owner did install the ORD manual loncking hub conversion so my CV is not a problem when normal driving but definitly always rubbing once in 4wd. (planning to do boot slide mod to help alleviate some rubbing)

everything seems to be pointing to "better" coilover setup set at about 2" for best ride quality with lift. would the manual locking hubs be necessary with this low lift setup? seems more of a hassle to have to get out and lock hubs all the time when i need 4wd and the axle/cv angle shouldn't be that aggressive with only 2"

is it worth it to purchase a "better" coilover setup or is the fabtech dirt logic the same as king, icon, ect.?

 

Yeah, my truck was special ordered by someone who backed out. I come along, by it and was sick with the gearing once the 'new car' thing was over.
With the 2.7 & AT, 33's and 5.29's is all I can do with the mountainous area I live in. It struggles as it is but definitely better than OEM.
With the 3 link SAS adding so much weight, I'll stay with 33's for now.

What is your frame height?

 

About a mile and a half, give or take a couple football fields.

I am hoping to pull a leaf or two if it doesn't settle much more. Will really help my front shake angle too.

 

The coilovers you have are pretty good. Don't bother replacing them unless you want to boost the economy. Making sure they are in good shape is worth it though, maybe ask a shop to look them over, potentially rebuild them.

Boot slide mod will help, don't go too far though.

In regards to the locking hubs, I prefer them lol. I understand a lot of people don't, best bet would be to swap with someone who wants to switch. I'm not sure what the ORD hubs are, but OEM Toyota's use a different CV axle spline count, so that could be a lot of work to switch back. Keeping them manual and disconnected saves a little bit of rolling resistance (read maybe slight mpg gain) and doesn't wear out the front end as quickly compared to the automatic options.