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BigMike’s Big Journey: New 2016 Tacoma

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Builds (2016-2023)' started by BigMike, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. May 17, 2017 at 11:39 AM
    #161
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    June 3, 2016: Bald Mountain

    A few weeks later I slipped away and did a quick run up to our local Bald Mountain trail with "TURBO" Tim. Bald Mtn is a proper trail that provides a great overview of our popular High Sierra Nevada wheel'n: Large exposed granite, tight tree squeezes, steep and sharp climbs and descents, loose rocky sections, and a few high speed sections. It is our only trail (out of a twelve trail network) that is traditionally open year-round and also the only trail without any lakes.

    One caveat with this trail is that it lacks gatekeepers from either entrance and all major obstacles may be bypassed. For these reasons it is common to find vehicles that otherwise wouldn't have any business being up there, such as Bronco-IIs, Blazers, Rangers, Fronteirs, and so on. It also means we see a few Tacomas with lightbars, smoked tail lights, and much chrome so it's a good place to do some proving of the new Tacoma :D

    Here I am next to our newly updated Trail Condition Bulletin Board. Google Street view of location: https://goo.gl/maps/vwhvFobkjVw

    [​IMG]

    Bald Mtn trail head

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    Stopped to air down

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    I'm love'n this live tire pressure monitor. "The future"

    [​IMG]
     
  2. May 17, 2017 at 11:39 AM
    #162
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    Starting out strong with some "mad flex"

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    Our beautiful central California granite

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    The visability out of this thing is horrendous

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    My first trail glamor shot!

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    Made it up a descent crossed-up section without the "Auto-LSD" engaging but with a lottttttt of clutch slipping.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. May 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM
    #163
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    June 3, 2016: Bald Mountain (continued)

    At this point I had encountered my first two annoying characteristic of the new Tacoma.

    Old School Rock Crawler's Off-road Impressions I

    • The V6 flywheel must weigh a full metric ton. If you try jam'n through the gears in low range the RPMs don't fall at nearly a quick enough rate. I have no doubt this was done for better fuel economy as well as less apparent mistakes to novice gear jammers. I already have a simple solution for this in my mind.


    • The Hill-Start Assist is a major pain in the butt off-road as it prevents the ability to rock the vehicle back and forth in search of traction or a line adjustment. This is important especially on snow runs. If you're unfamiliar with it (like I was), the truck will hold the brakes for about 2 full seconds while you make a gear shift from a stop. The reasoning is to allow time to engage a gear and begin disengaging the clutch before the truck has a chance to roll down a hill. I can see this being a helpful feature for all the Tacoma owners who use the truck to take their cats to the pet groomer every Wednesday before picking up their kids from soccer practice. But come awn man people want to drive stick shift for the love of toe-and-heal clutch work. Afternoon cat food delivery Tacoma trucks have automatics by definition. With a manual trans Tacoma, they should at least provide a way to defeat this. It's not that hard: I'll just simply remove the clutch engagement switch from the system whenever in low range (insert relay, done). Now the ECU won't know when I'm using the clutch. Problem solved.
     
  4. May 17, 2017 at 11:41 AM
    #164
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    I've always wanted an XtraCab, aka Access Cab. The stock ground clearance is pretty sad...

    [​IMG]

    ...especially the horrendous design of the exhaust crossover. What was Toyota thinking here? The exhaust pipe is lower than the cross-member. It will, at least however, not be in the way of our Dual Case products which is nice but definitely I'll have to improve this.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. May 17, 2017 at 11:42 AM
    #165
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    June 3, 2016: Bald Mountain (continued)

    At the base of Hollywood Hill

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    Up the approach to Hollywood Hill

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    High-centered again hahaha

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    The view up Hollywood!

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    I took the cheater-line off to the left

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    It gets steeper and steeper

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    Shot from the cab

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  6. May 17, 2017 at 11:43 AM
    #166
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    Old School Rock Crawler's Off-road Impressions II

    • The Tacoma Transfer Case has a 2.566:1 low range gear ratio. This is 12.69% lower than the Hilux's 2.277:1 low range. But don't be fooled: Unloaded and with small stock tires this low range is usable until you get into any sort of a climb or descent. You cannot start the truck in gear; You have to constantly slip the clutch; You have to ride your brakes down the backside of every obstacle. It's okay for now, after all this is why the Marlin Crawler exists. In due time my beloved Tacoma!


    • I am very pleased to discover the new 2GR-FKS lugs down very well. This is absolutely critical for non-Triple case Marlin Crawler owners in those situations when you're in a real pickle and need to go as slow as possible. Of course I was stalling it -- it doesn't have a Marlin Crawler yet -- but I can clearly see this engine is going to be a winner once combined with some actual Crawling gear ratios. It fights hard to stay alive at sub-idle RPMs.

    Stopped on the upper side of Hollywood Hill

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Fun for everyone except my clutch :D

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. May 17, 2017 at 11:44 AM
    #167
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    June 3, 2016: Bald Mountain (continued)

    Old School Rock Crawler's Off-road Impressions III

    • Holy crap this seat belt auto-latching mechanism is crazy sensitive! It is so bad that after having parked on a hill, I could not buckle back up! If you unbuckle while on any steep grade then the seat belt becomes unusable. I had to continue up the rest of Hollywood Hill without a seat belt on. :eek: Any 1995 and older truck I've been in would allow you you pull the belt out so long as you pulled it slowly. Not so on the Tacoma no matter how slow I pulled. This I do not like.

    [​IMG]

    Great day for some wheel'n!

    [​IMG]

    Elevation here is about 6,500 feet.

    [​IMG]


    Continuing up towards Bald Mountain

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. May 17, 2017 at 11:44 AM
    #168
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    Finally at the top! Elevation 7,838 ft.

    [​IMG]

    Overlooking Shaver Lake, CA

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. May 17, 2017 at 11:45 AM
    #169
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    June 3, 2016: Bald Mountain (continued)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And that's it for the Tacoma's first time at Bald! The northern end of the trail is pretty dang easy and we skipped all the stuff the Taco couldn't do and bugged out.

    One last pic after airing back up and ready to return home.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. May 17, 2017 at 11:45 AM
    #170
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    We took some misc videos which I turned into a quick & dirty compilation with no music. It's nothing special. I remember my first time wheeling my 1981 Hilux (took it up Claw Hammer with Triple Cases, October 2004) and being crazy nervous to not even get a single scratch. I was overly cautious here too haha Hope you enjoy!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fcM-FUmVbs

    At the 4:03 min mark I wanted to try out this "Auto LSD" feature so I got the Taco crossed-up. Incoming long rant.

    I have much to complain about, more than what I'll share here, but before I explain I have to acknowledge the fact that the system works. If you are stuck it has the "potential" to get through. There is no comparison to say a 20-yr old stock Toyota pickup: Once you got stuck, that was it. You'd need to get pulled out. But at least the Tacoma has the "ability" to get through such a scenario as shown in the video.

    Now, the bad, no very bad thing here is that the Auto LSD requires a lot of throttle for it to work and this is teaching the next generation of off-roaders a very bad habit.

    Quick desc of the system: I've not read any manual on the subject, but as I understand it the truck is utilizing its ABS wheel speed sensors to detect a large enough tire rotation differential across each axle and applying the brakes only for that single faster rotating tire in an increasing manner until the force across the differential equalizes and the two tires have the same angular velocity. Side note: I don't have CRAWL Control which is only for Autos.

    Here is the issue with this in more detail than what's probably necessary:
    As an experienced Rock Crawler since the same day the hobby was created 23 years ago, my first instinct when I lose traction is to lift. You lift based on physics due to the fact that static friction has a higher coefficient of friction than kinetic friction. The goal should be to allow the tires to work and find traction, aka finesse it. We see many inexperienced wheelers do the opposite and get egged-on by their buddies yelling "GET IT! GET IT!" which leads to skinny pedal abuse, a lot of bouncing, and ultimately broken parts. I am not so thick-skulled to admit there are times when you need momentum, but this should only be as a last resort option and even still you only need to feel the bounce once or twice to know the severity of how stuck you are. Be a man by either stacking rocks or asking a Jeep for a tug. Seriously. Show some humility & make some new friends. That is certainly better than breaking down in the middle of the trail holding up traffic causing everyone to get to camp after dark.

    Now fast forward to your truck with 37" or larger tires aired down to 6 PSI or lower. This would be your seven-step program to a broken axle:
    1. When you get stuck the first thing you do is apply throttle (don't ever do this)
    2. The truck starts bouncing as tires with traction bite and quickly release due to insufficient tractive force
    3. As each tire loses traction and releases, it becomes airborne for a split second with minimal resistance, and as such quickly accelerates since you're still on the gas
    4. The acceleration of gravity pulls your truck back down slamming it into the ground with the full force of your trucks mass (Newton's second law!)
    5. Your foot is still on the gas building potential energy in the flywheel and 50+ pound accelerating tires which puts an enormous sudden load on your drivetrain (shock load)
    6. Now your tire has a higher tractive force due to the increased pressure exerted down by gravity so it bites harder and beings your tire is aired down so low "because Rock Crawler", it has become a large bouncy ball causing more rebound each time it's pulled back to the ground
    7. Keeping your foot buried in the throttle, repeat the above over and over allowing the shock load to increase with each successively larger bounce until finally you break an axle

    This is what Toyota is teaching people to do with this fancy "Auto LSD" system. Sure, stock axles are sufficient to be bouncing stock tires that cannot be aired down too low (without fear of blowing a bead) and have low bite/traction, but this system without question teaches Tacoma owners bad habits.

    Here is literally what happened to me the first time I experienced the Tacoma's Auto LSD:
    1. I'm trying to get through a trail section when suddenly I lose forward momentum
    2. I let off the throttle to allow the tires to look for and find traction
    3. Slipping the clutch to go as slow as I can and still can't find traction
    4. Slowly work the wheel right, then left, then back right, then back left. Nothing

    This is normally when you should back-up for a better line, or ask for a spot, or get out to see whats going on and throw some rocks, etc

    5. Wanting to see the Auto LSD in action, I decide to stay on the bad line and build up some wheel speed for the computer
    6. I apply more and more throttle
    7. The truck starts bouncing
    8. Instinctively I immediately let off the throttle to finesse it and let the tires do the work
    9. Whoops, now the computer doesn't see a sufficient tire speed differential and auto-LSD does not activate

    10. Repeat steps 5-9 each time trying to go deeper and deeper into the throttle while trying to suppress years and years of off-road know-how
    11. Finally at 3,500 RPM in 1st gear the "Auto LSD" light begins to flash followed by a nasty grinding sound (brakes being operated by the computer)
    12. Instinctively I immediately let off the throttle because something doesn't sound right. Lol Start all over again at Step 5

    The video shows my second take through that section with the Auto LSD. The lurching proves the mental battle between my senses and my right calf muscle :D

    BigMike
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  11. May 17, 2017 at 12:00 PM
    #171
    RedBeard1

    RedBeard1 Baby Ruuuuuth!

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    The relocation of the shifters is one thing but defeating the 4wd controller may be a different story. Getting it to play nice so that the locker and the lights in the dash still play nice is going to take some thought.

    On the fly wheel I am not sure it is the weight of it causing the slow wind down. The EPA requires the "Rev Hang" to reduce NOx levels in the exhaust gasses.

    On another note I am going to look for a RC61F and it's matching T case out of a Hilux when I go to the Philippines this summer. If I can find one for a good price I am going to try to ship it or carry it back with me. Hopefully you can play with the ratios in the RC series like you can in the R series transmissions. Not to mention that they have a manually shifted transfer case bolted to them. The JDM market there is great hopefully I can find one.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  12. May 17, 2017 at 12:13 PM
    #172
    RedBeard1

    RedBeard1 Baby Ruuuuuth!

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    Oh and one more thing... These trucks need a higher clamping force clutch. I'm sure you have noticed.
     
  13. May 17, 2017 at 12:16 PM
    #173
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    I understand the principle but would never have thought in a million years it was being mandated...........:boom: It's only gonna get worse once I get some low gearing installed. My current idea is the following: Swap out the Tacoma flywheel for a presumably much lighter Lexus flywheel. I haven't looked into it yet, but if the Lexus 2GR-FSE (manual IS350) has the same crank shaft bolt pattern and O.D. then this could work. It's worth looking into and I plan to give it a shot soon.
     
  14. May 17, 2017 at 12:23 PM
    #174
    RedBeard1

    RedBeard1 Baby Ruuuuuth!

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    Look in to Orange Virus Tuning they are working on a bench tune for these trucks. Hopefully they will tune this out of the engine programming when they do.
     
  15. May 17, 2017 at 12:36 PM
    #175
    hookembevo

    hookembevo Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think the 6MT came with Hill Start Assist, and I'm almost certain my OR doesn't have it. That sounds like a PITA!
     
  16. May 17, 2017 at 1:07 PM
    #176
    dorton

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    Are we there yet?
     
  17. May 17, 2017 at 1:25 PM
    #177
    RedBeard1

    RedBeard1 Baby Ruuuuuth!

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    The sports have the hill start assist. Our OR models don't.
     
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  18. May 17, 2017 at 1:26 PM
    #178
    RedBeard1

    RedBeard1 Baby Ruuuuuth!

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  19. May 17, 2017 at 1:53 PM
    #179
    whitedlite

    whitedlite Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad to find out @BigMike is here on TW. I've used so many of your write ups on marlin crawler for gathering parts for my toyota drivetrain going in my samurai with an ALH engine in front of the R151.

    I can't believe you haven't done more yet to the taco. Get to work :thumbsup:
     
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  20. May 18, 2017 at 10:30 AM
    #180
    BigMike

    BigMike [OP] Applied common sense Vendor

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    Woah. With how protective Toyota has traditionally been with their ECUs I am very excited to learn about this. Thank you, I reached out to them straight away :D Will update the thread with any new info from them

    I did not know this. Add another reason to the list of why I did not want to get a Sport model...

    "eta son"

    Thank you for the kind words whitedlite! Yeah yeah I know, last year was a long year with not much wheeling for me. I only went to two events all year, making 2016 the least amount of wheeling I've done since literally 1984.
     

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