Dunes and trails, suspension and tires, and stuff and stuff

Hey all, I'm new here. I just bought a 2002 Double Cab TRD Off Road, 195K miles, mostly stock and very well maintained (dealer serviced with records). I have owned several other Toyota trucks but this is my first 4X4 Toyota. I am using it for daily driving (short commute), hauling dirt bikes, and off roading on both sand dunes and rocky jeep trails (will be slick and muddy in winter). Will rarely if ever haul or tow anything heavier than dirt bikes.

The previous owner had 5100's installed in the front and 5125's + AAL in the rear. I gather the 5100's have 3 height settings and I'm guessing mine are on the lowest setting currently since the front is sitting ~ 2-3" lower than rear, but not sure how to tell. I would like to lift the front about ~ 2" and put slightly bigger tires on.

My first question is: how do you tell what setting the front 5100's are on, and how do you change it? Do you have to pull the whole spring / strut assemblies out, compress the springs, etc...?

Next question is - should I consider different shocks and/or spring for my purpose? If so, any recommendations? I took it to the dunes recently and found this suspension set up to be very stiff (2 adults and 2 kids in cab, no significant weight in bed). Since I don't need to haul a lot of weight, I'm thinking a set up with more compliance to soak up bumps while off roading might be better for me.

As for tires, any recommendations (brand / model / size) that will work in both soft sand (dunes) and rocky / muddy trails? I have read that MTs will dig down in sand more than ATs, though this truck almost got stuck in the sand a few times where the only other 4x4 I have owned (97 Cherokee XJ) seemed to do much better with same size MTs for some reason (maybe coz XJ is a lot lighter? IDK...). My current tires are: Firestone Destination A/T 265/70/16s. According to tiresize.com, that size is 30.6" diameter which I guess would be considered "31's" so thinking maybe 32 or 33's in something more aggressive.

Lastly, if anyone is in the Portland OR area, I welcome any input on local 4x4 shops or clubs. Thanks!!!

 

Welcome to the forum from another Portland member!

To answer some of your questions (to the best of my ability) yes I think your 5100's should be adjustable, I know some are but I'm not positive they all are.
If they are then yes it's a 3 position clip on the shock, I believe it's (stock height, 1.75 inch up and 2.75 inch) this will be relative to how worn your front coils are though, or at least that's what toytec told me a week ago.

To adjust them from one setting to another they will need to come off the truck, and I'm pretty sure you'll need spring compressors.

As far as the rough ride, that kinda surprises me as they seem to be the most popular option here by far. Are you sure your front coils are stock? If they have a higher poundage that could be it.

As far as tires, it really depends on your intended use.. Here in the PNW everything tends to be so wet and muddy that mud tires would sure be nice, but only if you're actually gonna be out in the mud, as far as sand, airing down will make more of a difference then what kind of tire you have, 10 psi or so in the dunes and you'll go all over.

Finally, about four wheel drive shops, I don't know many, other then, avoid Gresham 4x4, and superior. A buddy I used to know absolutely loved woody's 4x4 in Vancouver, but they tend to be jeep biased, great shop though.

Hope that helps

 

Thanks E30325! (I've never owned one but assume that is a BMW reference?)

That's what I was guessing but wondered if it might be possible to adjust them on the truck if you used the clamp on kind of spring compressors or something like that. I wonder if anyone has tried that or any other ideas? Maybe it wouldn't work or is a bad idea to try, IDK - just a thought.

10?!?! I didn't know you could go that low! I only aired down to 25 front, 20 rear. 10 (especially front) sounds risky but IDK, but I'll experiment more with it next time I go.

Thanks again!

 

Maybe 10 is a little low for sand, but it really all depends on your tires/wheels and driving style. I've gone down to 8 psi before in the snow and never blown a bead. But you wouldn't want to drive on the road at all at those pressures. If I'm gonna be offroad for the day and it's a short limp (>15 miles or so) down the road to air up I'll go down to 15 Psi front and rear. The difference it makes is mind blowing

 

I quoted your reply wrong for the response somehow and have no idea how to fix it lol...

 

The last time I was in sand (Juniper Dunes) with the Tacoma I took my 265/75-16C Duratracs down to 12 lbs. My OR went everywhere my friend's Jeeps that were locked front and rear went with the exception of places where my long wheelbase breakover angle forced me to bypass to avoid high centering. No excessive digging at all. Only problem was I'm on the stock suspension and the front clearance when aired down was a bit lower than I would have preferred. 2" of lift would have helped. Ill eventually do that with new springs instead of using 5100s (or worse yet spacers) to keep the nice compliant offroad ride that I prefer. The last time I had my Jeep LJ in the dunes was on 35" C rated General Grabber AT2s aired down to 15 lbs. They worked perfectly but I'm locked up front and rear so that shouldn't be a surprise. I'm guessing the ATs are better than the KM2s I just mounted.

 

Welcome to TW

If you have the budget, Kings/Fox/Icon shocks would help soak up the dunes a little more. But as far as your Billies up front, yes you have to take them out and compress them. There might be a video on YouTube on how to adjust em, not sure.

Lastly, in my own experience, I've lived in SoCal right next to Glamis for a while. That sand is the driest and finest you'll ever see. I've had Wrangler ATs in P loads and usually had to air down to about 5-9psi, drive with the locker on, and drive with enough momentum in order to not get stuck. That was with a 2WD. Now, when I bought my newer Tacoma, it already had KM2s on it, and while they didn't conform as much when aired down since they're load E, they did extremely better in the sand. Without the locker, without being in 4WD, and at about 20psi. I'm a firm believer mud terrains are better in sand as long as you don't slam on the gas from a stop. But that's an arguement almost as bad as religion or politics. Sure they dig, but so did my ATs. Just my 2¢.

 

Sounds right, I don't have much experience in sand, but a fair amount in snow, and they seem surprisingly similar.
AKA any tire can bury you from a stop, and airing down helps a lot, but once you're loving at decent speed a MT will dig enough to keep you going forward, while still staying afloat.

I swear though in either snow or sand air pressure is everything, earlier this winter in the snow I was in my stock Tacoma on toyo AT's aired down to 15 lbs, and was doing noticeably better then my buddy's sas'd lock'd 4Runner on 35" MTR's, it was weird but pretty funny, he would just dig and I'd float past him

 

Thanks all! Appreciate the inputs!

 

Any time! Do you go to sand lake or Florence for dunes?

 

I have been to both, Sand Lake is closer so usually there. I took my Jeep XJ on the dunes a few times and trails at Browns Camp but so far only taken the Tacoma to Sand Lake once (and no trails yet). Ride dirt bikes at Browns a lot and will try the truck there at some point, but wanting to get more lift in the front and bigger tires first.

I'm researching a few options but it seems like you can't lift the front much without doing a diff drop and UCAs, so might do some King coils, UCAs, diff drop, maybe also switch to King shocks and different leafs in the read (maybe try just the front stuff first, not sure yet). Still researching all the options....

I also have a line on a used super charger so tempted to do that if I can find a good shop in or not too far from Portland to install and tune it.

 

To follow up on my own thread - in case any of my experiences are helpful for anyone else: I have made some mods and am very happy so far. I still need to test it off road, but I can already tell a big difference in ride compliance even just going over speed bumps and such and brakes are a huge improvement. Here's what I ordered via Amazon:


ARB 2881 Old Man Emu Coil Spring
Sold by: Autoplicity
$167.20


Icon Vehicle Dynamics Toyota, 1.5in Lift, Add-A 51100
Sold by: Advance Cycle Parts
$214.95


Power Stop KC2324 1-Click Performance Brake Kit with Caliper, Front Only
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC
Return eligible through Sep 13, 2017
$281.97

In addition to the above:
* ordered F+R braided lines from Wheelers
* scored a nice set of 17" 4Runner wheels on CL
* just got a new set of Bridgestone BFG K02s in 275/70/17

I thought about installing the springs myself but then found a shop that would actually do it for a reasonable price so I had the F+R springs installed at Central 4 Wheel Drive in Portland. They did the job for much cheaper than I was quoted anywhere else, were able to get me in with little notice and did a great job (as far as I can tell) so I would recommend them to anyone in the PDX area.

I installed the Tundra brake kit myself thanks to the various DIY threads out there on that topic. A few notes on the brake install process:
* Cutting the dust shields was easy - I just used a sheet metal shears. Then I installed the calipers and rotors (just a couple of lugs finger tight to hold them) and rotated to check clearance and bent the shields a little here and there till they didn't rub anywhere
* Some people in other threads said the wheelers banjo bolts worked without drilling, but that was not the case for me. Maybe its a slight difference in the calipers - not sure why - but the bolts were definitely too long in my case and had to be shortened. I got the lines from Wheelers because (1) I wasn't sure from the forum threads what modification was required to the stock banjo bolts (turned out it is easy to do) and (2) I thought they would be longer to accommodate lift, but they seem to be about the same length as the stock lines as it turned out. So FWIW - if I were doing it again, I would skip the lines (just use the stock ones and drill the banjo bolts). The lines were a pain to swap out (for me anyway) money I didn't really need to spend and not really much benefit (yeah I know braided lines are better but probably make no difference for most people). Not a big deal - just mentioning FWIW
* I picked that particular brake kit from Amazon for the price - painted calipers, rotors and pads all for less than $300?!? and I am very happy with the rotors and calipers, but there was one problem: the pads they shipped do not fit the calipers. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the pads they shipped probably fit the smaller variety of Tundra calipers and these are the larger variety calipers. Just kind of funny that they ship pads that are incompatible with the calipers they are bundled with. Since they all shipped as one item (bundle / package deal) and I already had the old parts off my truck before I figured this out, I did not want to ship the whole thing back, so I just went to my local auto parts store for a set of pads that fit. I contacted Amazon support and after explaining the whole situation, they gave me a partial refund without having to send anything back, so it all worked out. I now have a set of pads for (I assume) the older Tundras with the smaller calipers, if anyone local to me wants them for cheap. I also have a new set of Tacoma front pads which the previous owner of my truck gave me that I can't use and would also sell those locally for cheap if anyone wants either of those.

One other note is that my previous (stock set up) front rotors were warped and vibrating under braking a lot (which when I started googling lead me to the Tundra brake upgrade threads) but I also had a funny noise on deceleration - kind of a "wrreerr wrreerr wrreerr wrreerr wrreerr" (decreasing frequency and pitch as truck slowed) noise when not braking and coasting down or just lightly braking. I thought for sure it was a CV or front pinion bearing or something - did a lot of searching forums and YouTube for deceleration noises and I never suspected the front brakes, but the noise is completely gone now (since I did the brake swap) so I guess that was it.

So end results: looks freaking awesome (IMHO), rides better on the road (still need to test it off road - will hopefully have a chance in the next few weeks) and much improved stopping power. Me == happy-camper!!

Anyhoo, here she is:

 

Looks great! Can't wait to see how it performs off road. Throw that stuff you have for sale in the 1st gen marketplace. Make sure to put the right description and it should sell quick!

 

Went out to the sand dunes over the weekend and my truck performed much better with the new springs and new, bigger tires (also aired down more than last time I went). The ride was still bumpy but much less harsh / punishing then last time I went, so I'm very pleased with the results!

To briefly recap in case TL;DR:

What I started with:
Bought my 2002 V6 4WD TRD DC with previous owner having installed an AAL for weight hauling purposes, and Bilstein shocks with height adjustment raising the front on stock springs. I liked the slightly lifted height but ride was EXTREMELY STIFF. I also had warped front rotors and did not get as good of traction as I had hoped in my first attempt to traverse some sand dunes.

What I changed:
Kept the Bilstein 5100 F / 5125 R shocks from previous owner but changed springs with the goals of (1) slightly more front lift to get closer to level and to fit bigger tires and (2) improved ride
F: changed from 5100s on middle setting with stock springs to 5100s on stock height setting with OME 881 springs
R: changed from the beefy, weight hauling AAL to Icon 5110 1.5" AAL (and removing factory overload spring)
Result: exactly as intended - slightly more front lift, rear height about the same so sitting closer to level now, and much improved ride

I also did the Tundra brake conversion and found some nice 17" 4Runner wheels on CL which I wrapped in a new set of K02's.

Thanks largely to info I found on the forums, it all came together quite nicely.