Best motor oil???!!!

I was in the dealership yesterday near the end of the day to pick up a bed mat on order and an oil filter for my first change at 5K miles. 3 of the service reps were outside shooting the bull and so I stopped and joined in. I asked them if they would put synthetic or mineral oil in their own new vehicles. All three of them also said that starting with the 2011 model, Toyota will be filling Tacomas with synthetic right from the start.

Has anyone else heard about this?

 

http://www.*************/engineoil_bible.html There is a start.

 

First of all, the way you incorporated your comments inside the quote made it a pain to respond point by point.

1. You do know that was written years and years ago right ?
Yes is was some years ago, however, he referenced oil cert levels that are still within the easy memory for current times. The discussion is valid as the spec dates are not that far off. Look up spec dates for the current generation of oils.

2. And you know this how ? They have never released their ingredients - they are propriety , so again how can you state what you have stated ?
A company does not have to release ingredients to know that they use different formulas. All you need to do is look at the results of test data and see the variation in flash point, three ball wear tests, temp related viscosity and so on. If the numbers are different, so it the formula. Different levels of oil show the characteristics of the varied chemistry. Read a little about how the formula of an oil will change those numbers.

3.Ok would that be similar to a vehicle driving off road revving high , driving in low, going long periods at a crawl with little heat dissipation due to no wind flow ?
The property of an oil under these circumstances (like rock crawling I would imaging you are thinking about) that would be most important would be flash point and hot flow numbers. In other words the weight rating is only part of the story. The oil's ability to stick to and lubricate very hot metal parts would be very important and not all oils of the same weight do that to the same level.
4. Wrong they have a SM / SL /Sj whatever the service rating and if the manufacturer states that as a requirement it meets the qualifications end of story
Read some more, because this is only partly true. I have read manuals that state that oil of a rating can be used like you state but the required oil also meets another performance spec set by the maker. Some even state that you can use the API rating to top off or in the absence of the correct oil, but if an oil that meets the manufacturers spec is available you are required to use that for warranty and for better performance. API ratings are only one standard. So please explain to the group why one oil with a specific API rating does not meet a manufacturer's specific rating and another one does. Those oils cannot be assumed to be the same even though they carry the same API rating. You can have a full synthetic that carries the same API as a dino oil but only the synthetic meets the manufacturer's requirements for the oil. Even a synthetic that meets the API XWXX rating may not be suited for a specific engine. Here is an excerpt for just one engine maker. Information is from GM.

1.Your vehicle's engine requires a special oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M. Oils meeting this standard may be identified as synthetic. However, not all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. You should look for and use only an oil that meets GM Standard GM4718M.

NOTICE: If you use oils that do not have the GM4718M Standard designation, you can cause engine damage not covered by your warranty.

2.SAE 5W-30 is best for your vehicle. These numbers on an oil container show its viscosity, or thickness. Do not use other viscosity oils such as SAE 20W-50.

Oils meeting these requirements should also have the starburst symbol on the container. This symbol indicates that the oil has been certified by the American Petroleum Institute (API).

You should look for this on the oil container, and use only those oils that are identified as meeting GM Standard GM4718M and have the starburst symbol on the front of the oil container.

Your vehicle's engine is filled at the factory with a Mobil 1 synthetic oil, which meets all requirements for your vehicle.

Substitute Engine Oil: When adding oil to maintain engine oil level, oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M may not be available. You can add substitute oil designated SAE 5W-30 with the starburst symbol at all temperatures. Substitute oil not meeting GM Standard GM4718M should not be used for an oil change.

ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES
Do not add anything to your oil. The recommended oils with the starburst symbol that meet GM Standard GM4718M are all you will need for good performance and engine protection.

So I guess I am still WRONG? If one is not enough, go out and look for an approved list of oils for the VW 1.8T engine. Then do the same for BMW and Mercedes. Find out if all oils meet that meet an API service also meet the ACEA A5 rating. Heck make it easier and look for dino oils with the highest API rating that meet the A3. You may find a couple but you will be hunting. Look into the issues that one Euro maker had when even thier US based dealers did not have the correct oil and were having engine failures. They were using an oil of the correct weight that did not meet performance specifications. What good was that S_ rating then?

Now I am dog tired of typing.

 

Hmmmm, it is quiet. I hear no dogs barking.

 

Eneos Oil is the oem for all major japanese auto makers. http://www.eneos.us/


IMHO.

 

I just changed my oil last week and I put in Mobile 1 Full Synthetic High Mileage Blend

 

Chris, will you please stop using logic and fact when you post? That is not what the web is all about!

On serious note. I saw some oil the other day in a quick stop kind of place. Called "US Economy" oil. No API certs, no starburst, nothing at all on the bottle except the weight. I wanted some.........NOT.

 

I use Mobil 1 in everything.

 

Good post -- however keep in mind that approved by XX automobile manufacturer means that the XX lubricant manufacturer had deep enough pockets to pay for the testing to gain the approval which costs big $$$$ which in turn puts any approval out of the reach of many reputable oil manufacturers. An engine manufacturer may put out a spec but for a lubricant manufacturer to be listed in a manual costs the lubricant manufacturer $$

The standards do a good job of making sure that all oils are compatible with each other and that they also meet engine requirements. with in that there are obviously the high end and low end of the performance scale. also, keep in mind that there are only 3 or 4 companies (my memory fails me) that make the additive packages that are used by al manufacturers to blend into their oils. For example Lubrizol. just like there are only a hand full or two of refiners who will put out any given type of base oil. So a cheap 7 -- 11 special 99 cent a quart oil may have a mobil base oil and an off the shelf lubrizol additive package.

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/default.html

again lubrizol may sell an off the shelf additive package to a number of manufacturers. it depends on what those manufacturers put into the blend and how they do it that makes the final product what it is.

Ive seen some jobbers or manufacturers who run a tight ship and follow strict quality manufacturing practices -- you could eat off the floor and others where you know there is cross contamination of products and or contamination from dirt. also, the quality of the base oil affects the final product and how they put it all together, and what type of quality control they have (are batches consistent in quality). even how they store and handle the components of finished product or the finished product itself can affect the performance of the products.

Ofcourse there are some engine oil manufacturers who have the big bucks that work directly with a lubrizol to concoct a special formulations that are compatible with the performance characteristics that their marketing department deems to be the most important. Or in other cases there are real improvements above and beyond the norm and or everyone else.

XX lubricant manufacturer -- "hello mr lubrizol I am XX lubricant manufacturer and I want a product that has the best XX capabilities."

Lubrizol -- "no problem but remember that the additive we use for that will affect other aspects of the oils performance"

XX lubricant manufacturer -- "who gives a shit -- our marketing department says that is what everyone wants and as long as it gets certified we are ok with that"


Just for clarification

jobber/blender= a company who blends oil for many different customers and may put out their own house branded oil.

manufacturer = any company who puts out their own branded oil (royal purple, amsoil) these manufacturers may rebrand for other manufacturers.

refinery/manufacturer = any company who refines petroleum to produce secondary products. these may include companies like mobil who put out their own products or San Joaquin Refining http://www.sjr.com/ who sell raw components they manufacture to sell to the royal purples of the world.

Also on a side note -- a chevron plant may blend for shell or other depending on the location of the world and product.

One other note there are companies like Chemtool http://www.chemtool.com/metalcote who most of what they do is manufacture for OEMs and private label (amsoil, royal purple, ford, GM, caterpillar and others -- i have no idea which they are, those OEMs are confidential to Chemtool. The point being that you may buy the exact same grease or gear oil from NAPA that is the same as grease or gear oil from toyota) Chemtool does not manufacture motor oils but there are those who are to motor oils what chemtool is to grease.

 

Nice Post.

I understand what you are talking about on the money side, but ALL oils that want to carry an API rating on them MUST pay to go through testing, right? So the oil company is already spending money for testing, it just comes down to how much they want to spend. Now if you are talking about SPECIFIC endorsement by the maker for ONE particular brand of oil, then I agree with what you are talking about. Kind of like a specific suggestion of one brand of gas. However....

Looking at the older GM specification (GM6094M) I have found lists with as many as 56 DISTINCT brand names and many of those names listed had multiple offerings for the oil. (several choices if you will) Some of the brands listed were even what people would think of as "economy brand" or "house brand" oils. The newer specification for high performance engines has multiple brands on the list as well but the list is MUCH shorter. I think that alone is telling. IF there was additional money involved for extra testing (not always the case as all oil has to have some testing to bear a mark) why did so many more companies pay to meet the older standard but so few pay to meet the higher standard? As far as some of the EURO sheets I have read, there could be HUNDREDS of oils on the approved list for a very high quality oil. The trick is that a very small number of them are actually something we find on the shelf here in the US. That list has grown in recent years as oil has become a point of interest and people started asking questions.

That was all my post was trying to point out. If you want to be sure, without having to learn to read the results of testing that ALL reputable oil companies put product through, the best course of action is to look for the cert level on the oil.

Lubrizol is a good company and they make good products. They are correct in talking about how additives must work together. Those products add cost to products. Sometimes, HOW MUCH is used is an indicator of the performance of an oil. I think of this like Ceramic brake pads. By law you can sprinkle in some ceramic to the mix and call them ceramic pads. You can also build a pad from the ground up as a ceramic pad and use the correct formula for a specific application. The two are not the same, do not cost the same and will not perform the same. Take a company like Akebono. They know ceramic pads. They have had as many as 28 distinct different formulations of pads for use on specific vehicles. They know what will perform well on what application and so build it the way it needs to be. It adds cost but it also adds value.

Again, Peru. I liked your post and I think the points are valid. I just think people should keep asking questions as opposed to reading marketing material. Meeting a spec is not always paying for advertising, sometimes it is a better product.

 

It is also no worse than any other oil mention in the thread. Price is also inline with other high quality synthetic oils. Asking for best oil is like asking for best gas to use.It really does not make any difference. As long as you change it on regular basis. All oil will protect your engine adequetely. IMHO.

 

I would run Amsoil but it is so hard to find here in SoCal, Texas has it cant wait to get back there. welcome to TW.

 

Chevron Delo 400-

Always changed oil per mfg specs. My '84 4 runner manual says every 10k as does the sticker on the side of the air cleaner so I change it every 10k or so. 185k miles and it just passed smog doesn't smoke or burn oil?

Time on an engine is a better determining factor than miles. 3k in bumper to bumper is more hours then 6k on the highway? 3k in my opinion is very conservative.

Furthermore, I will probably trade or sell this Tacoma before I would ever reap the rewards or benefit from expensive sythetics? No reason to waste the extra cash? Good Luck!

 

Just get in touch with the company, they'll send it right to your doorstep. Can't get much easier than that.

 

Me, too.

 

Got 4K on the new 2010 v6 and good reading on this reference oil. I am deciding which one to go with, but will most likely be synthetic. I get two free changes with the dealer. Talked to an Amsoil guy and he told me a bulletin from Toyota just came out reference running the high mileage synthetic (12K) I think and he said Toyota warns that the filter should be changed about every 5K if you are going to run this oil due to filter clogging.

 

mobil 1 all the way. their oil is better than anybody's. Their advertisments say so and I believe them.

 

I switched over to amsoil oil and filter. Good stuff.

 

What do the dealers use?

Thanks