Frame Replacement Program Help and Advise

The bottom line of the story up front: my local dealership and Toyota Motors are refusing to replace my frame. I need advise and help from the members here on TW.

The Readers Digest Condensed Version (so leaving out some detail): I purchased my 2004 DCSB 4x4 V6 from an individual in Ohio, fully knowing that it was a salvage titled vehicle that had been repaired. No damage evident, and the PO had driven it approximately 10,000 miles after repairs. Brought vehicle to NY, where it went through the salvage inspection and was titled and licensed. To present, I have driven the vehicle over 100,000 miles, with no issues/problems. No alignment or tire wear issues. I should note that I do all of my own maintenance, so the vehicle was never back to a dealership after I purchased it. In late 2012, at just over 79,000 miles, I received the notice from Toyota to bring it in for inspection of the frame, and either replacement (if perforated) or rust preventative treatment if found to be sound. I took the vehicle to the local dealership and no perforation, so it was given the treatment. I leave with the full impression that I now have a warrantied frame.

Last year, I was now over 100,000 miles, so decided to do replacements on most of the "wear" items. This included coil-overs for front, shocks for rear, rotors, pads, calipers, timing belt, water pump, accessory belts, rad. hoses, fresh fluids for diff. and trans. case, new gas tank skid plate, new emer. brake cables, received and installed new stainless steel exhaust from MagnaFlow, under warranty, along with stainless catalytic converter. I also had to have the windshield replaced, and this required repair of the channel around the window (rust). I also added a number of new accessories, including new brush guard with LED lights, roof rack with LED light bar, LED reverse light bar, dual battery and inverter, added a ham radio setup, and a few other minor items.

It has been my routine to annually clean my underside, spray with WD40 (sometimes with oil added), and "rattle can" paint as much as can be. I even went to the extreme of coating much of the underneath and particularly the frame with chassis grease, all in an effort to ward off rust. As I began this process in May, I discovered an area of rust-through on both sides in front of the spring hangars. Off to the local dealer, Williams Toyota of Elmira, NY, to have them inspect the frame. They agree that I am seeing perforation, take pictures and submit a request for replacement to Toyota. Toyota approves, and a frame is ordered. They project as much as six months to delivery. Fortunately (maybe??) it was only about 30 days until they called to say that the frame had arrived, and we scheduled the truck to go in. Truck is delivered on a Monday morning, and on Wednesday is moved into the shop (I did a drive by). Since they had indicated that the technician might find items not covered under the frame replacement, but that needed replacement, I stopped in on Friday evening, expecting his list might be ready for approval. As I arrived, I saw that my bed and topper were outside on a stack of pallets, and that the cab was attached to the hoist, and off the frame. But when I went to the desk, I was immediately escorted to see the service manager. He announces "that truck has a salvage title", and that Toyota will not replace the frame on a salvage title vehicle. The only reason that they found this out was due to a bent cab mount on the frame and some damage to the cab mount on the body, making it difficult to remove. He says that they are working with Toyota to resolve. I checked back on the following Tuesday, and he indicated that an engineer would be in the following day to assess. I continue to follow up over the course of the next couple of weeks until finally they let me know that Toyota would not pay for the replacement now. They said that they were looking into possible coverage under their "garageman's" insurance. This took another week, to this Monday, before they said that there was no coverage there. At this point, I asked exactly what this meant, and the manager informed me that he had received instruction from the owner to put it back together, but no new frame. I suggested that I felt I had been wronged, led to believe that my truck and frame were covered, and that I might have grounds for legal action, but that I was hesitant to be forced to go to that extreme. I asked that he go back to the owner one last time before either of us proceeded. On Tuesday, 8/15, I met with the manager again, to go over all of the conversations that we had, to get some clarification on where the system failed, and to request some additional information. He graciously allowed me to record this meeting, and provided as much as possible. We could never understand where the problem began. But at the end of the meeting, he informed me that the owner had instructed him to put the truck back together.

As one last ditch effort, I called Toyota Customer Service and opened a case. Late today, I received a call from the case officer, and he informed me that Toyota would not replace the frame.

Some of the pieces of information that may be missing as I try to put together a case may be the original service notice, calling me in for inspection. Would anyone have a copy of theirs? Feel free to redact your information, I am just looking for the verbiage of the notice. Also, I do not remember what I might have received that discussed the warranty of the frame following the treatment. Does anyone have that in a document from Toyota or their dealer? Or are these available on-line or through Toyota?

Fellas, should I proceed with legal action? I feel that it would fall under a breach of contract. I made many decisions about improvements based on the supposed warranty of the frame. I had planned to keep this truck for many years to come. Now I will have a truck with about 4 months life left without frame repairs to get it to pass NYS inspection.

What are your opinions on frame repairs, perhaps the use of Safety Cap patches? What kind of a life expectancy is realistic with those?

Any advise is welcomed, 'cause I'm kinda screwed.

 

You cant sue toyota over your personal perception regarding the warranty. You can obviously because 'murica, but that's it. Toyota didn't sell you the truck, toyota never told you it was under warranty, toyota wasn't involved in any way with the sale. You bought from a private individual. If he promised a warranty, frame replacement etc, your beefs with him. If you based your decision on the erroneous belief that all tacos are filled with gold coins, your false belief has just as much merit.

You decided to purchase before the frame inspection, you bought knowing it had already been totalled. Youre up a smelly creek without a paddle in that regard.


In regard to the dealer having the frame and not using it (because I can just feel that coming) the dealer gets paid to do the work by toyota corpotate. If Corp says they wont pay and they do it anyway they then have to reimburse Corp for the parts and eat 100% of the labor. I don't know what that would cost but I'm guessing it's a 5 digit number. They are already eating g the disassembly and the reassembly labor. At 100+ an hour, that's not cheap.

As for life expectancy with repairs, no way to know. It's lasted this long, unless it's way worse than you descried it should last a lot longer. And you may do all the patches today and have the engine explode tomorrow. Who knows.

 

Now this is interesting because it opens a whole new legal option for Toyota to decline frame warranties .

Install a lift kit declined Any hardcore off Road use declined . Any parts installed other then Toyota declined .

For what it is worth the Cost is around $12,000.00 but a long wait for a frame the rental vehicle cost can drive the price up more .

As all dealerships are independent one never knows the next one would have processed the warranty claim with no problem.

your legal fees will most likely be more expensive then fixing your frame .

It all depends on just who is repairing the frame no reason it should not last the life of the rest of the truck

Comes down sell it now or fix it

 

It all stems from the "salvage title". You have no warranty with Toyota when you buy salvage. Once the vehicle is salvaged, it has to be inspected before it goes on the road. Toyota does not do these inspections, so they wash their hands of the vehicle.

I'm surprised that the truck made it to the repair stage. Most dealers know that the salvage title will kill a frame swap deal. I'm thinking no one in the service department checked the title. I know someone got their ass reamed.

That owner must have been pissed when he found out he had countless hours lost on the process.

Toyota pays the dealer to do the swaps. That dealer was not getting payed and he had already lost money paying the techs to do the work and he still had to pay them to put your truck back together.

Surprisingly, dealerships like to do frame swaps. Toyota pays for 2 techs to work on a swap for 40 hours. It usually takes them half as long. Everyone in the dealer ship comes out ahead. Not this time.

Walk away and just enjoy your truck.

 

I agree that salvage title can change the rules. However, Toyota came to me with the offer of "inspect/replace/treat" back in 2012. And I admit that I was somewhat surprised by this, but because we are talking about what could be a major hazard.... The dealership inspected and treated, thereby leading me to believe that I am covered for future perforation. Then when I take it in this year, again, it's is inspected, and ultimately approved at Toyota corporate for the replacement, frame delivered, and even disassembled. Only then does anyone discover the salvage title. I feel that an implied contract was created with the first inspection and treatment, let alone with the second one at the corporate level.

I'm not in this situation to "make a buck" at Toyota's or the dealer's expense. I would have been the most happy if the frame was still whole and I could just drive it for many more years. But once I receive the treatment and believe that my frame is warrantied, I make a lot of real dollar decisions, expecting that my truck has much life remaining, and is worthy of the expenses of many life-time warranty parts being replaced.

To say "Walk away and just enjoy your truck." is like telling a dying cancer patient to have a good life. My truck has only four more months until the annual state inspection is due, at which point it fails. Then I do walk away! Literally!!

 

At this point I see three options to keep your truck (maybe)
1. Fight it with a lawyer, but probably not possible to win (not a lawyer, so IDK)
2. Make a deal withe them for "paid" frame replacement if it is even possible. They might recover some money lost whee working on your truck. Again, IDK if they even will be able to sell you a new frame.
3. Patch your perforated frame - there are guys who did extensive frame repair. Again, not cheap if done by shop but at least you can control the cost to minimum.

 

Right now, I am negotiating for option # 2. Best option available now that full Toyota reimbursed frame replacement is off the table. Wish me luck!!

 

I think it's your best option. Good luck and thanks for reporting back.

 

Good luck. What I heard you can't even buy a frame for MSRP from Toyota. So when the dealer already got you one frame even buying it for MSRP is better than walking away with nothing.

 

Just wanted to do a quick follow-up on this tale of woe. I negotiated with the dealer, and will be receiving a new frame, with my paying for the frame, although not full MSRP. I think it is as good an outcome as could be expected, once Toyota Motors washed their hands of it. I do feel sorry for the dealership, as I think they were more or less an innocent victim as well. The service manager indicated that he had done a thorough review of their manual for these frame replacements, and found no place that it instructed the dealership to check for salvage title. But this will keep my truck on the road for many years to come. You can bet your a$$ that I will be doing a lot of treating as soon as I get it back.

 

After you get a new frame don't let it root again. There is a plenty of info how to keep the frame protected especially around the trouble areas. And not only just a frame, but all exposed hangars, bolts, nuts, lines etc. I believe if treated well that frame can last more than 10 years. And in 20 years it will qualify for classic meaning the price will go up the roof.

 

I'm going to paint it with POR15, and once that is dry, the whole undercarriage will be getting a dose of Fluid Film, including the boxed areas of the frame. All in all, most everything under my truck is still in very good condition, just the frame rusted from the inside out.

 

Stop using WD40 that shit is nothing more than binaca for rust. Use Fluid Film, Crowne, Waxoyl and have it sprayed internally in the frame.

 

I brought my '01 Ext. cab to VT from AZ - not a spec of rust anywhere and I've treated it with this product. Folks in canada swear by it...

https://corrosionfree.com/

 

POR15 is not what you want for a new frame. It needs bare metal to properly work. The new frame comes already painted. Any of the undercoating programs listed above is the best answer.

 

Thanks for the heads up! That makes it easy, as I have a five gallon bucket of Fluid Film and the spray system just waiting for it to get home then. All of my vehicles will be getting the Fluid Film treatment this fall.