4low difficulty - 2004 Taco Crewcab

I use my 2004 Tacoma crewcab for surveying. Last week I was surveying a mining claim up around 9000' MSL north of Black Hawk, CO. The trail was pretty steep and loose, so I used 4x4 low to go up and come down the trail.

Once down and ready to leave for the day, I found it extremely hard to get out of 4x4 low. It happens consistently, and here are the symptoms:

1. Come to a stop, shift transmission to park. Pull back on 4x4 shifter -- EXTREMELY hard.
2. First time this happened, I think I either put it in 1st or reverse and moved a couple feet, then tried again (after putting tranny in park). Still very, very hard (as in, a LOT of force required to pull 4x4 shifter back.) I put transmission in neutral, and was able to pull 4x4 shifter back, but it did not go all the way back (as is normal) before moving slightly left to 4x4 high. Then when I tried to move the lever slightly forward or reverse, I could feel and hear gears grinding. The first time this happened, with the truck stopped (probably with parking brake applied), slight pressure on the 4x4 lever resulted in the "grinding" gears slowing, and I was able to pull it back into 4x4 high. No problems then leaving 4x4 high and going to 4x2 high (i.e. normal). The 2nd time this happened (in neutral, feel/hear gears grinding), I turned off the engine. I was then able to easily push the 4x4 lever full forward (4x4 low position) and re-start the truck. I then was able to get it out of 4x4 low, but I can't remember what I did that time.
3. The last time this happened, with 4x4 low fully engaged, I put transmission in reverse, backed up a few feet, turning the steering wheel left/right, but after putting transmission in park, was unable (lever still very very hard to move) to easily pull 4x4 lever out of 4x4 low. This time, I moved the vehicle again a couple feet, but shifted to neutral and let it "come to rest" (I was on a level spot). Now I shifted back into park, and was able to (rather easily) pull 4x4 shifter out of 4x4 low and into 4x4 high.

Has anyone experienced this, or can (easily?) describe or understand the issue(s) I am facing? I do not hear any noises or feel any vibrations when driving in 4x4 high or low.

I usually use the Toy Doctor on South Broadway in Littleton, CO for most of my maintenance / repairs. When I briefly tried to describe some 4x4 low issues a year or so ago, the fellow on the other end of the phone was saying repairs for that system run in the $1500-$2000 range. Does this sound about right (yeah, yeah, I know, it could be a lot of things)... but after the above long-winded description, does anyone have a good feel for what is probably or possibly wrong, and how much it might cost to repair?

FWIW, while she's having her tires rotated / re-balanced, front brakes replaced, oil changed today (Mobile 1 full synthetic, genuine Toyota filter), the mechanic drained / refilled the transfer case. He didn't note any issues with the fluid.

Here's my baby:

 

Just wanted to say you have an awesome job.

 

If there's any kind of pressure or binding on drivetrain it will be hard to shift. Being in park and on an incline will cause binding. Better to set park brake then go to neutral before shifting transfer case.

 

This.

The park pawl will put load on the drivetrain. You can take the load out by using the brakes and neutral to shift between low and high range. Should go like butter.

 

I had the similar thing with J-shifted 2012 4Runner (auto). I don't remember what I messed up but the J-shift lever got stuck in neutral (between 4L and 4H). Took a lot of stress (I am very stressed when I hear a grinding noise from under the truck) to put it into 4H. Since then I read the procedure of switching between 4H and 4L. Stop the truck, put on N (not P, not R not D) with engine running and stepping on brakes to keep the truck from moving. Than with one quick motion flip it from 4H to 4L. No stopping between. There is no "gentle and smooth flip" with J-handle like you would to with manual transmission when changing gears. J-handle needs firm action. Same procedure when going from 4L to 4H.

Doing it never had problems with 4x4 in my 4Runner anymore.

O course because my J-shift Tacoma has manual transmission and manual locking hubs switching 2H-4H-4L is no-brainer. Full stop and because clutch is disengaged no matter what gear I'm in. Actually just for lubricating front diff from time to time I flip to 4H without locking front hubs and drive like that for few minutes. Or going on some really bad dirt road (dry but with very deep potholes) I flip it to 4L (without locking hubs it is really 2L) and idle through all those bumps.

 

As far as that quote it's pretty steep - for another grand or so you could get a crawlbox or 4 speed transfer case lol.

 

I have had the same issue on my 02 Tacoma with auto tranny. I get mild grinding when I go from 4H to 4L and the same going the other way. As others have said shift when you are in neutral and it shifts much smoother. Probably because there is no load on the tranny. I have just made it a habit to shift into neutral, shut off the engine and then proceed to shift in or out of 4L and then I don't have to cringe and wait for it to grind.

 

Well... it just goes to show... RTFM!

Or the card in the driver's visor shade.

I think I have been shifting into / out of 4L incorrectly. For whatever reason, I thought I was supposed to be in Park. The visor card states for an Automatic transmission to shift the transmission first into N(eutral) before switching into or out of 4L. (Needless to say, after coming to a stop. Though, interestingly, for a manual transmission, you supposedly can shift into/out of 4L while moving less than 5mph.)

This makes sense and agrees with the above comment(s) about the parking pawl in the Auto tranny causing binding in the (transfer case?) gearing.

Yesterday I shifted into 4H (no problems) while moving and drove for a little ways. Then came to a complete halt, shifted into Park (oops), and easily went into 4L. After a bit, stopped again, reversed a couple feet, shifted to neutral, foot off brake, let it roll a foot or so, applied brake, shifted into Park (oops), and then went easily from 4L to 4H. I think my whole "problem" is related to computer problems: PEBKAE, or in my case, PEBOE (problem exists between operator ears). I'll do it again today, but only using neutral, and report back.

Damn, I'd love a Martin Crawler box, even if it means sacrificing a cup holder. But I need to find the moolah to do an OME lift, and then I'd like to replace front and rear bumpers.

 

Thanks.

But when I can no longer drive to where I need go, and have to lug my equipment up and down 100% slopes strewn with loose rocks above 9000 ft, can I give you a call?

 

I think my "hard-to-get-out-of-4low" issue is a non-issue caused by user error.

Today I put her into 4low several times: shifted into 4high. Came to a stop, shifted transmission to Neutral. (Easily) moved 4x4 lever into 4low position. Each time to come out: came to complete stop. Shifted transmission to Neutral. (Possibly let off the brake to let her roll a very short distance in neutral.) Easily moved 4x4 lever out of 4low to 4high. On a few occasions, there was a very brief, and very light "meshing" (?) of gears. I wouldn't say "grinding" because the gears easily meshed, it was obvious they were not moving quickly. Perhaps if I had waited for an extra second or two before moving the 4x4 lever, there would have been no "meshing". I will experiment some more, and update this thread.

To summarize: When coming to complete stop in 4low, with brake firmly applied, shifted into Neutral -- then had very little difficulty moving 4x4 lever out of 4low and into 4high.

 

I agree with this too. Set the brake and use neutral. But not to thread jack but I have a different problem. I'll run in 4 hi or low for a while and when I go to shift back into 2 hi there is a lot of lag time from when I shift to when I hear it disengage and the 4wd light goes off. Just wondering if that's normal, on other trucks I've drove it's pretty instant.

 

It does it also with manual hubs. Unlocking hubs and t-case requires no load on it. Meaning both drive shafts must run identical speed and in sync - like driving straight line. It may take some time (few seconds) of driving till conditions are good for system to disengage. Now if your tires are different or not inflated the same then this might take much longer. Same if you are not driving straight line.

 

you are supposed to be in neutral when going from 4hi to 4lo and back. park is not where tranny should be, N is required.

 

Oh ok I gotcha. Just wondering because like last year I was wheeling in the snow and I was in 4hi when I pulled out on the road and then shifted back to 2 after I got on the road because it was plowed. And it took forever for it to disengage

 

lol That's what I was thinking!

 

I believe if there is any "stress" or "pressure" on the drivetrain it will prevent the ADD from disengaging. Once the driveline is slack it will disengage to prevent damage to the system.

he already figured that out

 

Hey Everybody,

Here is my take on this thread. Please keep in mind our old Tacoma is the old style four wheel drive system, which is not at all convenient. It, however, never gives my family any problems, and our Tacoma is now older than hell. Our Tacoma is a 1999 V6 4x4 extra-cab with manual locking hubs, and the old style transfer case with a 5-speed manual transmission. This is what I do when engaging or disengaging the four wheel drive. I first get out and lock up the hubs. The next thing I do is back the rig up a good twenty yards, and then I depress the clutch and hold it down a few seconds before I do any shifting of the transfer case. If I need to use four wheel drive low, I repeat the same process I just spoke about. When disengaging, I also follow the same steps. Never do I feel resistance or hear any kind of meshing from the transfer case when I follow these steps.

When I was a young juvenile delinquent, an old timer told me about the inner workings of a four wheel drive vehicle. Whenever you have a front gear shaft and a rear gear shaft spinning at the same speed or very close to the same speed, the vehicle will have a certain amount of bind or tension built up in the drive shafts and transfer case. To all the purists, I apologize for not using the correct vocabulary here in my analysis. To release this tension, you simply back up the vehicle and disengagement will be way smoother. Going to neutral on your transmission is always a good idea before disengaging or engaging.

Here are some more tips on how to make your old Tacoma last without failure. Even though the manual says on the Tacomas equipped with ADD, you can shift on the fly, never do it. Always come to a complete stop when using four wheel drive. Your Tacoma and the four wheel drive system will gladly appreciate it. Remember also only use four wheel drive when necessary. Use it in the snow or dirt roads that warrant its use. Driving around in four wheel drive when it is unwarranted, puts unnecessary wear on the truck, and the vehicle will consume more gasoline.

Good Luck,
Paul

 

another thing I discovered with toyota, automatics and 4lo/4hi and Y1998-2002 ish

sometimes going to N is not enough
sometimes you need to go to N, shut off motor
then
swap modes from 4hi to 4lo, start back up, good to go

 

While in general, I agree with you, there are times when that may not be expedient / warranted / safe(?). I would offer a slight modification to your admonition: when switching in to / out of 4WD HI, by all means try to reduce the stress on the drivetrain at that time. Obviously, coming to a complete stop, depressing clutch fully or shifting to Neutral, if an auto tranny, will accomplish this goal. (Completely turning off the motor so nothing is turning would be the ultimate in "stress-free" drivetrain into/out of 4WD.) Whenever I shift into / out of 4WD HI while moving, I always try to (at the very least) take my foot off the throttle to minimize the stress/binding/tension in the drivetrain.

An update: yesterday I was traversing some steep (to me anyway), somewhat loose, gravelly trails to get to a PLSS sixteenth corner that I had to observe with GPS. After shifting into 4WD HI, I came to a complete stop, shifted (auto tranny) to Neutral, paused for a beat, then smoothly moved the 4WD lever to 4LO. NO issues. No clunking or grinding. When it came time to shift out of 4LO, I came to a complete stop, and, with brake firmly applied, shifted the transmission to Neutral, paused for a beat or two, then moved the 4WD lever out of 4LO to 4HI. No clunks, and no grinding or other gear music were observed / felt / heard. I conclude my "issue" was caused by my failure to properly RTFM and was completely a PEBSWAS issue.

I then reviewed my 2004 Tacoma Owners Manual and for proper engagement of the E-locker. I saw no mention of having to be in Park to use the E-locker. When I went back to retrieve my GPS base station, I stopped, put her in Neutral, moved 4WD lever to 4LO (having been in 4HI), then engaged the E-locker. Noting the E-locker light never stopped blinking (after a minute or so), I read some more. No mention of the light not going out. So I shifted her into gear and moved a foot or so. The E-locker light immediately went out. After retrieving the GPS base station, and motoring out, I stopped, put her in Neutral again, pushed the E-locker button to unlock the rear, and smoothly moved the 4WD lever to 4HI. I then put her in Drive, drove a short distance (10-20ft), disengaged 4WD (i.e. moved 4WD lever out of 4HI and into 2HI), and after a slight turn of the wheel, the 4WD light turned off accompanied by a subdued click sound from below.

Conclusion: all user error (mine), and my Taco is a happy and healthy truck.

Here's some more Rocky Mountain Surveyor porn for all you Taco lovers:

 

Glad you got problem fixed. Really only came here for the amazing pictures to be honest. You have a sweet job.