Is this even possible? : head gasket leak, no overheat,no codes, see pic....

toyodajeff:
washed it down (somewhat) 1 week prior to starting the valve cover replacement chore. It's even cleaner now. Cannot now drive it legally until it's been smogged. Please see my last post above.

And thank you for the excellent suggestion-if not for current circumstance that's exactly what I would do-in addition to running a compression test.

And I ALWAYS use a torque wrench-I'm really anal about it, to be tmi honest.

 

You can get a compression tester for free from any auto parts store. You purchase it, use it, return it, and they return your payment in full. What makes you think a cylinder with low compression is causing you to not pass smog? There's no reason to suspect a bhg if you aren't experiencing a rough running engine, getting a slick in your coolant, losing a lot of oil, puffing white smoke, or getting misfire codes. Without running a compression test you're most likely throwing money out the window. If you want to give money away, there's better causes you can contribute to such as my supercharger fundraising j/k. Why can't you pass smog? Check engine light? If so what codes?

 

Yea if it don't have a check engine light on it will probably pass.

 

Dalandser, too funny (re contributing to your supercharger fund) haha you'd have to take me for a ride when it was done...
Can't pass smog w/truck 1/2 gutted parked in driveway. No need to borrow compression gauge, own one, even used it a few times...

Given the clearance figures (or rather, _lack of_figures due to the impossibility of getting readings from several of them) along with some other considerations it just seems like an hg job is on the horizon. Not that I actually want to do it, mind you.
I am suspicious (readaranoid) about the mess on the block visible in the photo I posted-which was the thing that prompted my original post.
The shop machinist I spoke with laughed when I told him why I was calling and what kind of vehicle I have-he indicated that if I couldn't get a clearance measurement on the exhaust valves that they were pretty much goners.

I would be thrilled to learn of some other means to determine my actual valve clearances-there is absolutely no question that new parts are required there.

 

unfortunately it does have a cel-for P0401 insufficient egr flow.

 

So why not just do the head gasket job yourself? Where does $700 come from? I'm not sure how this is all adding up. It goes against every logical diagnostic ever. You sound like you're the engine whisperer if you can "feel" a headgasket repair coming. If you have a compression tester and you're not choosing to use it, then you're trolling and wasting people's time on here with these questions - it will tell you if you need to change the headgasket or not. Not us.

Here is the Honda tool I was talking about. How can you not get valve clearance measurements - you could follow this guy's methods if you can't.

 

Fix egr code, put a $10 valve cover gasket on it. Bolt air intake tube back on, put in new spark plugs. Return the head gasket kit. Emission test truck
If you have it tore down to check the gaps on the shim for the valves I assume it's really just got the valve cover taken off and the tube going to the throttle body, it's 2 hrs and a gasket to out it back together.

 

toyodajeff: have valve cover gasket already (see post #20) and it was a bit under $25. New spark plug tube seals addt'l $21. Both incl in hg set. You are more or less correct on current 'tear-down' state.

Dalandser: please see post #24? And I will be doing the hg job myself (no it won't be my first) I have watched that video, wasn't sure that was the tool you were referring to. Changing the shims requires knowledge of the clearance you're starting out with prior to acquiring the appropriately sized replacement shims. As I am unable to obtain the 'starting' clearances on several valves. (please see post#24 )
lol your crack about 'engine whisperer'.

edit: ouch I just reread your last reply. Not quite sure exactly what you mean by 'trolling' in this instance but the implication is unpleasant. It is not my intention to waste your, or anyone's, time. Perhaps a more careful reading of my posts would be beneficial?
For the record I very much appreciate the time taken to read my posts as well as sharing the benefit of your experience and knowledge by responding.

 

You started this thread based on oil from the leaking valve cover thinking it was a head gasket issue when all you had to do was compression test your engine with the tester you already had and then ignored multiple suggestions to do so - if you had said you had a compression tester in the beginning and chose not to use it then I wouldn't have wasted my time telling you to do the most logical next step. You still haven't said if you're throwing any codes that would make you not pass smog so that's another easy thing to do that could have been done to see if you're getting low compression. If you just can't pass because you tore down your engine to check the valve clearances then again you must have some unique ability to sense emissions. If it's because of the egr then address that as was suggested after you seal up the valve cover.

What shop bill are you talking about?

 

RE: using the method of the guy in the linked video: @.41 (I'll paraphrase): "...the first step...you'll...need to measure all the valve clearances..." I can't even get a feeler gauge between the cam and shim on several thus my ending statement in post@24.

RE: compression tester being able to tell me if I " need to change the hg or not. Not us." post #16 "not sure if I should start a new thread or not" I guess I should have.
The question I asked there was "what is the best (affordable!) head gasket set ?" Not whether or not I should replace it.

 

I get it, but why bother asking the first question when you could have saved everybody time and done it yourself?

So order some shims and start getting some clearances in spec - they're not going to change themselves. If you had done a leak down test you'd know if any of those valves are not shutting.

And come on pony up for the best gaskets you can afford if you don't want to go through this again.

@gunny1005 can get you the best prices on individual oem parts - he works for an online parts dealer. TW discount, no tax 'cept AZ and free shipping.

 

Thank you, Dalandser, for your reply. I agree about the 'best I can afford', no i don't want to do this again Thank you for the link, I will get in contact with him.
Er, I'm still not sure how, exactly, to go about getting the (current) valve clearances so I can order new shims? I quite literally couldn't get a feeler gauge in there. But I'll try it again if that's what it takes. Please don't flame me for asking: I used the instructions from the Haynes manual, cross-checking w/the fsm ...do you know of another means of determining valve lash clearance?
My reluctance to return it to running condition in order to run a compression test has to do with the afore-mentioned gaskets and seals already purchased that would need to be installed (and thus not returnable) in order to do a compression test -and that are included in a hg set. That's a bit over $60 that I'd rather apply towards the 'best head gasket set (I) can afford'. Keeping in mind the indication by the machine shop guy that if I couldn't get a measurement it's already too late to re-shim . (I interpreted that to mean it would require a trip to the machine shop for the cylinder head.) Please correct me if I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

 

Maybe he's right, but if the shims and hence the valves are coming too far up so you can't slip a feeler gauge between the shim and the cam, then it seems some smaller shims could correct this if you took out the shims and got some calipers and threw them on there. If the issue is your valves are toast then you can get a cheap camera in there and check. Amazon sells some inspection cameras for super cheap. Something along the lines of one of these:



Never had to check on any of my vehicles. Anyway I'd at least get your motor put back together. Every smog place I've been to gives you a month to pass if you fail so if you can figure out your egr stuff then maybe your engine will pass smog and if it doesn't you have a month to figure it out.

The more I hear about this the more it seems everything came up at once. I didn't know about all these issues when reading the first post so I'm guessing you didn't have time to throw together a comprehensive plan of attack or at least didn't think to include all the pertinent details like egr code and impending smog check in the original post. Have you checked out how to diagnose your egr code yet? That's something else I'm not familiar with since my trucks don't have that system. Start a new thread for that if you need help diagnosing that. Check in the 4 cyl section. There's probably some good resources on there.

 

If it's just the valve cover and spark plugs gaskets, I'm not sure about a 1st gen, but if you put it together just for a month or so on a 2nd gen the seals look like you could easily reuse them and they would still be soft. I used a felpro brand valve cover gasket on mine I got from rock Auto for $10 it included valve cover and spark plugs gaskets.

 

If you can't get a feeler gauge between the cam lobe and the shim, your only option is to pull the shim and measure it assuming you are starting with 0 clearance. This won't be accurate, but that's all you can really do. Once you get a shim in there with some clearance, measure it, and if it is wrong, you will have to order another shim.

You are turning the engine to the correct points to measure the valve clearance right?

 

No, they are NOT hydraulic. THey almost never need adjustment though but should be checked once in a while. My Toyota dealer says the factory told them to not mess with valves unless they are ticking. They wear loose. "However" it is possible but not very probable that an exhaust valve or two "could" wear tight. My 2.7 has 165,000+ on it and I'm considering getting a valve check/adjustment done in the not to distant future. Not right away because mine runs fine but before 200,000 miles.

 

@ Dalandser: gotta say I'm impressed w/your assessment-you're a pretty sharp cookie, methinks. Thank you (yet again) for your time and attention; I assure you it is much appreciated. I pm'd 'gunny1005', waiting to hear back from him, further steps pending

@toyodajeff: wow, that's awesome pricing! Thanks for the info, I obviously need to pay more attention to the RockAuto website.

@nzbrock: yes, I _ believe_ I am checking w/the engine 'at the correct points' (AFAIK-based on Chilton's instructions and cross checked in FSM):
w/ cyl 1 @TDC on compression stroke (crank pulley notch pointing to timing mark '0', cam gear alignment marks together and in line w/top of cyl head, distributor rotor pointing at cyl 1 spark plug terminal) :

measure cyl 1 int and exh, cyl 2 int, cyl 3 exh.

turn crank 360 degrees (clockwise) measure cyl 2 exh, cyl 3 int, cyl 4 int and exh. ..............Right?

(let me reiterate):

Thank you all for your time and attention. You guys rock! Now I'm off to start a new thread.....gotta find some shims:E

 

whoops, just saw last msg!

@TRVLR500: I believe you may want to double check your dealers' statement about "they wear loose" for accuracy. They actually tend to 'tighten' as they wear (the valve lash/clearance decreases) which if not rectified can cause the valve to 'burn'. Don't know if I can describe this process correctly, I can 'see' the process in my head, not sure I can verbalize it clearly but I'll take a shot at a very general 'nutshell' version. : -as the valve lash clearance decreases the valve 'seats' further into the cylinder head, combustion heat doesn't have a chance to transfer away from the head, 'hot spots' develop, especially on the exhaust side. -somethings gotta give.

Please do yourself a favor and look this up ASAP and educate yourself . Evidently this is the most common cause for valve jobs on these engines. One of my roomies is a mechanic, most of the other mechs he knows can't or won't perform a valve adjustment on these engines. A couple I talked to told me it couldn't even be done. (They were wrong) It's a major PITA and time consuming but not impossible. Rumor has it some dealerships won't do it at all or charge a small fortune: $600 or more. Still less costly by far than a valve job or head replacement.

edit: DON"T just consider getting a valve check and adjustment. Get it done, now. Too-tight valves will probably not give you any noticeable symptoms 'til it's too late. 165k you should be ok but.....

 

The (hopefully) FINAL update. It WAS a h.g. leak, see pics
l
\l/


it was leaking,(externally), sloooowly. More a 'seeping' than a 'leak'. And it was doing this in two locations, the second one wasn't quite as visible.
Whilst disassembling, the cause for the p0401 code revealed itself as soon as I removed the exhaust manifold heat shield:


that crack bisects the two halves of the manifold nearly all the way around; there's a little less than 1 1/2" metal keeping the halves together.
New manifold, ordered and received. Installation delayed due to further unforeseen technical difficulties.......

Here's some irony : my machine shop says the valves (and other parts) are 'good' (i.e. don't require replacement.) However, the cylinder head itself has "starter cracks in all the cylinders".

New head en route. Many other new parts and seals etc currently awaiting installation. Um, how hard is it to replace the rear main and timing cover seals? And do ya think it can be managed using only one hand?

 

Where was it leaking? I can't see it in the picture.