Tacoma DCSB Winter Driving:Is there a significant difference in the snow between M/T and snow tires?

I find it funny people on here will spend days talking about how worth it steel bumpers are for safety, even though zero testing is done on them and, really, even an idiot can see they'll only really help in certain collisions. Snow tires... well they are mandidated in several parts of the world for a reason. Go to an area where the snow always packs down to ice, and you need snow tires. No and if's or but's. Which is really the reason people argue. If you only need to be on ice for a couple of weeks, what is your life worth?

 

Well you have me there.... I won't deny I did fact run away from it as fast as I could like a little bitch

But glad you like that shit you masochistic bastard!

 

I'm on the west side of the country like you and it does snow plenty where I'm at as well. But I'll have to say, NE snow is much different. Wet and heavy. Spent some time out in NY and NJ years ago. Driving dynamics is different. I can drive through unplowed street 1' deep in fresh snow out here with no issues, but back east, it'd be much more difficult.

They can keep that snow, though. I can't even ski back there anymore, after experiencing plush and soft goodness out here.

 

Except ARB does testing on their steel bumpers...

Also the states that require snow tires, do not actually require "snow tires" any tire marked M+S will suffice which is pretty much an all-season or all-terrain.

There's a big difference between Perelli P Zero (M+S) tires and Perelli Winter Sottzeros

OP just get some chains, cheaper than tires and will do better!!

 

Certainly gives a whole new meaning to "when the rubber hits the road", which around here is late April. Until then it's ice everything. When the winds start polishing that ice, studs or not, you're slowing down. How's the wind around those parts today, Sterdog? And I'm not referring to under the hood.

 

No, ARB did testing on their crash cans in the bumper long ago. They don't do regular crash testing. Challenge them to provide any sort of data or pictures. Everything you'll see is on older vehicles well before the Tacoma was even on the road.

As for the difference between All Seasons and Summers... it's pretty close to the difference between All Seasons and Winters. I've never put any faith into M + S or snowflake ratings. Those are determined by the manufacturer. There are no industry standards involved.

I do find the newer all weather tires work fairly well on ice. However I don't think they'd last on hot pavement. Nokian, Cooper, and a few other companies make all weather tires now. No fancy letters for them though lol.

Chains do work great unless it's just surface ice. Then they are annoying.

 

Actually this years been less windy and just plain warmer in the fall than normal. Usually by now we would of gone through four or five 20-30 c temperature swings but, really, I think we've had maybe three chinooks.

Still very early in the year of course.

 

Yep some days when conditions are just right, that slushy greasy snow mess makes great spinners
My truck after driving home to Vermont from Quebec City.

 

This must be incredible in 4 hi. Great detailed post btw.

 

It's not a debate anymore. I'm getting snow tires. Just discussing other ways to get around in an emergency without snow tires. That, and some of these guys are discussing who has it worse

 

Thanks man. In my experience, nothing beats Nokian's line of Hakkapelitta snow tires. I like the LT2 for the Tacoma because it is a truck tire (E-load) and not a passenger tire: (1) the truck tires come with greater tread depth (16/32 for the Hakka LT2 vs. 13/32 for the Hakka 9 passenger tire) - the greater the tread depth the shorter your stopping distance in the snow, and the more life you will get from your tire, and (2) I like the stiffer sidewall of the LT2 because it doesn't flex as much while cornering. Some people find the E-load tires too stiff, and if that is the case, I'd recommend the Hakka 8 if you can still find it, or the Hakka 9 - but damn, the Hakka 9 has so many studs it will be super noisy on dry roads. The Hakka 9 is really for people who are in winter conditions close to 24/7, its not a great choice (in my opinion) if you live somewhere that only gets occasional snow. The Tacoma on the LT2s is just planted, and yup, in 4 Hi it is phenomenal. How do you like your ST Maxx's? I almost went with that for my summer tire, but chose the BFG KO2 - which I really like. (So much better than the original KO which I had on my 1975 FJ-40 back in the late 1980s!)

Here is the best 2 minutes you'll spend on the internet today: an Audi RS6 going 208 miles per hour on Hakkapelitta 8s, on ice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW5GMsT32RM

 

A few years ago a buddy of mine and I drove to telluride CO from NY. Ran into a snowstorm around Colorado Springs, we made it to Cotopaxi before we stopped for the night.

We we driving his BRZ with all seasons, it was sketchy as fuck but we made it staying on main roads and taking it easy.

 

Yeah but have seen people say they suck balls on wet pavement. Duratracs better I heard for all around traction

 

Or who has it best.

 

I wouldn’t put much faith in the videos or Nokian reviews. I liked my last set of Nokians but they weren’t any better than the Blizzaks I’ve had before. Anyways, Nokian got caught fudging reviewers for years with custom rebadged tires they sent out for testing. After buying Toyo LT winters... yeah both are excellent.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.auto123.com/en/news/amp/nokian-guilty-rigging-tire-tests/62114/

 

Duratracs are super-popular, and look great! The main knock on them has been weak sidewalls. I've never driven a set, so I have no first hand knowledge, but I was on the trail with a Jeep that suffered a major gash to a Duratrac sidewall. The driver said it was the second sidewall failure he had suffered that summer. Impossible to know if some other tire would have survived the same impact without a gash, because any tire can get a cut sidewall.

As far as winter driving goes: Duratracs can be studded, but a buddy who works at Discount Tire says that the rubber is not great in winter - but he likes them as a summer tire and doesn't worry about the sidewalls. I run E-load tires in the summer (KO2s) because they have thicker sidewalls, and that gives me a warm-fuzzy when I'm in the rocks. Duratracs can be found in E-load in some sizes, but only in C-load in other sizes. The complaints about Duratrac sidewalls have mostly come from people running the C-load tires. Personally, I find no drawback to E-load tires, but a lot of people feel that they are too stiff. No two butts are alike

 

QUOTE: "I liked my last set of Nokians but they weren’t any better than the Blizzaks I’ve had before."

Yup - there are lots of good snow tires out there!

Quote: "Anyways, Nokian got caught fudging reviewers for years with custom rebadged tires they sent out for testing. After buying Toyo LT winters... yeah both are excellent."

Huh, I've never heard this before. Disappointing, but I've had great luck with the four sets I've owned over the years. I also liked the Arctic Claws I had on my 1997 Tacoma, which were much cheaper! I've never run Blizzaks. I've always heard that they provide awesome traction, but wear fast, and that once you're half-way through the tread, you lose good traction. Did you experience this or were you happy with the life-span?

 

Think I read on here sidewalls are same for duratrac regardless of load rating...all have same ply sidewall

 

Switched to Nokian Hakka r2’s just before the snow season began in northern Michigan. Running them on ‘17 Tacoma OR and Volvo XC 90. Performance is similar on both. The biggest thing I’ve noticed so far is that when either vehicle begins to lose it on hard packed snow or ice, it is a gradual, controllable event. That is very important - gives you time to react rather than having the tires suddenly release and require more extreme adjustments.

 

I think there is a rubber council or something that enforces the proper use of the snowflake symbol. The thing is, to get the snowflake you just have to show something like 10% improvement over an all-season tire.

A KO2 is going to give you much worse stopping distance compared to a dedicated winter tire like a Blizzak DM-V2, in severe conditions. Even if the Blizzaks stop you only 6 m shorter in the city, it might help you avoid having an accident and maybe hurting someone. On the highway, in reduced visibility conditions, the difference can be 30 m or more.

Tires break down pretty cleanly according to the temperature range they are designed for. The rubber compound you find in a winter tire is going to stay relatively soft down to -30 C. Something like a KO2 is going to be hard as a rock at that temperature.

The other aspect is the siping. The more siping you have on the tire, the better it will stop on ice, but it will also make more noise. You will find that there is dramatically more siping on a Blizzak than on a KO2. Of course, if you have to deal with ice on a regular basis, nothing beats a studded tire for stopping distance.