Update: Katzkin = best quality, best customer service

Yeah that kinda sucks, honestly that installer shouldn't be giving out advice. I think they're just worried about people using shitty chemicals that causing warranty issues so he probably says that so that people don't use armor all.

But its crazy for him to try and say a good conditioner won't help at all. The moisture and UV protection alone help almost ANY surface when the appropriate chemical is applied. This is true for leather, plastic, any painted surface, etc... If you speak to that installer again I'd point blank ask him "if conditioner is useless then why does Katzkin make their own conditioner?" I'd love to hear his answer on that.

Sorry you got bad advice bro I totally understand trusting the installer they're supposed to be the experts!

 

I have Katzkins on my 2015 Yukon (2.5 years old) and 140k hard miles of people climbing on, puking on, spilling on, standing on. Still look like new. I would never buy leather through a dealership, I would go straight to a Katzkin installer. I used AzSuntops here in Phoenix, and they were awesome. However, if you purchased them through a dealership they should be helping you out. They have a relationship with the shop that installed them, not you. And if the installer is not going to stand behind their install and product, I hope this dealership does not continue to use them.

Are there any other installers in your area you can call and see if they can help you?

 

Thanks for your input. That's a lot of miles on the seats - what have you done for care / maintenance?

I can't even get the original installer to help, so I doubt another independent shop would volunteer their time to fix it.

 

Update, a little progress: I called another location of the independent shop who installs for the dealership and they actually answered and the gal was very nice. I set an appointment next week to have them look at it. She said for the leather they have to submit it to Katzkin because corporate has to approve all warranty claims, but the local shop will look at the fans to see what happened and whether they can cover it under warranty.

 

hopefully this works out for you!

 

I sold my 2012 this summer to get my 2018 last month. Three months after buying the 2012 new, I put in Katzkins. Five years and 90K later, they still looked like new. They were regularly cleaned and conditioned with Lexol products, probably once per month. Based upon the OP’s picture, I’m making an assumption that the area is getting dragged over on ingress/egress with driver’s posterior and if so, is causing premature wear.

 

I've had katzkin leather on multiple vehicles and the leather has been amazing! My current Tacoma has 30,000 miles and they look like the day I bought them. The driver seat still looks amazing and I weigh 230lb.
Honestly, the leather that you showed in those pictures looks damaged and or not care for. I'm not trying to bash I'm just saying, looks like that to me.
First I've ever heard of anyone complaining about katzkin.
I've never heard of anyone paying $2,500 for katzkin either.
Sorry you've got problems, hopefully you can find a good solution.

 

That's not top/full grain leather. That's bicast leather which leather conditioners won't do anything on. You can see the vinyl separating from the cheaper leather underneath. On bicast leather, vinyl protectants are much better to use than leather conditioner.

 

An actual leather conditioner made for leather won't help vinyl coated bicast leather. Do you put leather conditioner on your dash? Certain chemicals will be worse for vinyl than without. I used leather conditioner on my previous vehicle because it had actual non-coated nappa leather. If I bought "standard" leather seats I would not use leather conditioner but something made for vinyl like 404 aerospace protectant or what not.

 

He’s saying you’re not the customer of Katzkin so there’s only so much they can do for you - up to and including nothing. No amount of email responses can change that.

Yes it’s their product, but they sold it to someone else who then sold it to you. The installer is their customer. The dealer is the installers customer. You are the customer of the dealer.

That’s the chain in which you should be barking. Not skipping all the way to Katzkin.

 

This has been my experience as well. My katzkins have been in my truck for 5-6 years now and I've got wear in 2 spots. The first is where the leather folds over the lumbar support adjustment knob when I get in and out of the truck and the second is on the driver's seat from a pocket knife that my wife got for me which has a sharp point above the pocket clip. I switched back to carrying my benchmade and no more scratches. And I'm not gentle to my seats either. I've had my dogs on them, camping gear, tool bags... you name it. They're always covered in dust from wheeling in the desert, I've sat in them soaking wet on multiple occasions and they get wiped down with leather conditioner once a year at best. Mine aren't perfect but for how I treat them they've held up in spectacular fashion. But I don't have the coolers or heaters either. Sorry to hear about your troubles op.

 

Okay, right off the bat...I wasn't told how to care for it and have seen on other forums that stuff can mess them up, so we've never touched my wives, so thanks for the heads up before they got destroyed. Luckily no one ever rides in the passenger/rear seats except a 20lb dog once or twice a year and my wife is light and doesn't carry a blade. That said, I have lexol cleaner and conditioner on the way! My question though is, if I don't remember, how would i know what quality level of leather I had installed? I don't want to put this on if we have the standard and it will just make it worse...

Thanks!

 

I understand, and I've tried barking up the dealer's tree since last year with no response, same with the installer. Then I went to Katzkin. But the installer finally threw me a bone so I'm running with it.

 

And then we're back to... "if conditioner is useless then why does Katzkin make a conditioner themselves?". Like I said I even give a free bottle of it to every customer.

I agree with the 404 protection on purely vinyl surfaces but Katzkin isn't purely vinyl, it may be low quality hide but it does have genuine leather, even their cheapo packages are a mix.

I'm relying on anecdotal experience here but I started in the auto business as a detailer back in high school, went away to college but after graduating got right back into the car business and have been doing it ever since.

As a detailer we used the same conditioner products on a 3-series BMW as we would the 7-series, even though the 3-series were pretty much all vinyl and the 7 is either nappa or dakota leather. Over the years it was pretty obvious which cars had been cleaned and conditioned regularly and which ones had not. Now that I'm on the dealer side its obvious which tradeins have been consistently cleaned and protected and which ones haven't. Even on SOFTEX which isn't leather at all you can tell which people have spent the time to protect it. I've seen cars with 100k miles and the "leather" is PERFECT, I've seen cars with 30k miles that look worse than OP's. The difference?? Almost universally its rather they had their cars regularly detailed or not, and I KNOW the local detailers apply conditioners even to vinyl.

If conditioning doesn't prevent cracking then there wouldn't be a difference in softeness and cracks in cars that've been consistently detailed vs those that have not. The only difference would be CLEANLINESS.... and I'd be able to restore even the crappiest vinyl interiors with a simple deep cleaning... which of course I can't, which is why I offer less on tradeins that haven't been properly cared for.

I've been told my entire auto career by some people that conditioners are useless on synthetic materials yet time and time again, year after year, I see the difference myself in both my customer's cars and my own.

Now you might not get the ENTIRE benefit you would from applying to genuine unsealed leather. But having sold Katzkin leather interiors personally for almost 7 years now I can say with confidence there's a difference, I sell them the leather pkg when the car is new and I'm the one appraising it years later when they're ready for a new one. The people where the leather lotion is missing always have nicer katzkin (meaning they used it), the people where the leather lotion is in the same place I left it when they took delivery of the car new (i.e. never used it) almost always show more wear.

Its true there is a possibility this is all just confirmation bias on my part and I can't be 100% certain. But come on how can applying UV protectant and a hydrophobic coating even to vinyl NOT offer protection? Vinyl doesn't magically break the rules of physics and is still susceptible to drying out, plus IIRC Katzkin doesn't use a top bonded layer the polyurethane itself is mixed with natural fibers so it won't exhibit the same completely hydrophobic qualities of pure vinyl.

In otherwords, it certainly can't hurt to use Katzkin or Lexol conditioners on Katzkin leather products.

 

funny reading thru this and looking at my 4yr old 4runner with oem leather seats that have never seen a drop of conditioner, they look better than those torn up seats the op is complaining about.

and if you are wondering, I am gentle on my seats. I try to remember to not slide into/out the seat (lift my butt into the air instead when getting in/out). now if I could just get the wife to do the same in the passenger seat.

 

Thank you @rlx02 for that info, I vaguely remember hearing something that years ago but it's good to see it clearly explained.

 

If you've tried contacting them about it and they refuse to help you, try bitching about it on one of their social media platforms.

A friend/co-worker of mine had a pair of Red Wings steel toe boots that he used for just over a year on and off, but the heel was completely worn out, way more than what it should have been. I work alongside him nearly every day so I can attest that he switches them out with another pair daily. One day on, one day off etc.

If you know Red Wings you know they're known for their quality, durabiliy and warranty. Long story short, the store he bought them from refused to help, as did the company when he called them directly.

Within an hour of him posting the picture of his boots to instagram and complaining with their hashtag, a Red Wings rep had contacted him, and the issue was resolved within an hour. A new pair of boots was sent to him the very same day.

Just a small example of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, for whatever it's worth. Best of luck OP.

 

I mean, you can clearly see the vinyl layer separate from the actual layer in OP's photo. There's no polyurethane "blend" of leather. Its either bicast, or topgrain with or without a clear layer to protect. A friend of mine was a chemical engineer for a company that produced the bi-cast leather for Honda and other manufacturers. Looks like Katskins offers top grain and high end leather as well, but OP definitely has bicast leather.

I think the reason why you see cars with bicast or even vinyl (like MBTEX) leather that's in better shape than without is the fact that you have to clean your seats first before you use the conditioner, and the fact the owners went through the time to *clean* their seats probably helped in their longevity.

I guess my only viewpoint that's different from you is that I believe that vinyl CAN be harmed by other products not made for it. Agree to disagree.

 

Yeah this all makes sense to me. I've had good experiences with Lexol on both vinyl and leather so I'll keep doing what I've been doing. But I just as well could totally be wrong and just wasting time on the vinyl

I'm also gonna ask my Katzkin rep what they actually use on my installs. You're right OPs is clearly bonded but I swore she told me its "integrated mix" or something like that, honestly forget the wording and I've never had it separate on me like OPs so I wouldn't know the difference.