A-trac in 4lo on all 2016 4x4 Models Non Trd Offroad

Hopefully we have another snow storm so i can test. I did have some braking firing when I was in 4hi, but I was also sliding thru a turn and accelerating at the same time so that may very well be the VSC kicking in and NOT TRAC so the theory may very well be true here.

 

Try doing things slow... Speed is for 2WD when you want momentum to get you through a tough spot. 4WD is for saving your truck by giving you double the traction to not need to speed over stuff (and break things).
The traction controls are not for speed but simply to keep you moving or get you started. VSC is what comes on at speed when you begin to slide.

 

Yes, plenty of hills out here to test these theories but I need some snow or ice. Everything has melted by now so unfortunately I'm SOL over here

 

I verified and tested this yesterday also.

 

They still do in 2WD. They do not in 4WD and I don't think they ever did. Whoever made that 2009-2011 triangle chart messed up when they called ALSD in 2wd TRAC OFF MODE. It should have been called ALSD mode.

Not true. Image below is straight from the owners manual. TRAC On indicates some form of traction control is on. TRAC OFF indicates no traction control system is currently active. It's that simple. ALSD confuses things because they created ALSD in place of what would have been TRAC OFF in 2WD. ALSD is effectively TRAC minus the engine modulation. They do not turn on the TRAC OFF light in this mode because you still very much so have a form of traction control on. They do the same thing with A-TRAC and MTS in 4Lo on TRD ORs. The TRAC OFF light turns off when you turn on A-TRAC or MTS because a form of traction control has been turned back on.

This doesn't line up with ALSD in 2wd. They did call it TRAC OFF mode in that triangle chart but that was a bad thing to call it because even in that very mode the TRAC OFF light is not even lit. The something else only applies in 2WD and its ALSD. You do not get ALSD in 4Hi. Or else the lights would indicate it as so.

 

I can say that for our 4 assumed configs (OR etc Auto, OR etc Manual, SR etc Auto, SR etc Manual), when the "AUTO LSD" light is ON, then the "TRAC-OFF" light is NOT on.

So whatever TRAC and AUTO-LSD are, one is lumped into the other, or similar to, or part of, or something like. (In my guessy opinion.)
Stealing @DesertTaco4x4 picture

 

This was a critical point in my post above. It's like in 2012 they added a mode in 4Hi that showed TRAC OFF on the dash so the guys assumed it meant the TRAC OFF mode described in that triangle chart. I feel like that was an incorrect connection. The TRAC OFF light does not equal TRAC OFF mode as defined in that triangle chart.

 

Well, I am just glad we are all staying friendly and having fun trying to figure all this out! In 2010 when I made all the lists (and I was not the first) to clear up the traction controls, there was a lot of hostility.
I really need to ride in someone's third gen 4x4 as well as a 2012-2015 4x4 to get a real feeling for what is happening.

You don't need snow or ice, as sand, gravel, or mud will also create low traction.

Yes, I know TRAC is short for traction control, I was thinking of a difference between TRAC system and TRAC on mode, may be something in this?

The triangle and other chart I have posted is from a technical manual and not a TW creation. That they called AUTO LSD a TRAC OFF mode means it is more or different than the standard TRAC mode and obviously not traction control turned off. I sure hope they didn't kill TRAC with regulation off in H4!

As for the recent posts about TRAC OFF MODE: There is no reason to have VSC ON but TRAC turned off, if that was even possible, is there?

Here's my logic for saying this:

TRAC gets you moving and after you're moving VSC keeps you from sliding.
AUTO LSD is TRACtion control without regulation, to move you when 1 tire wants to spin. At 30 mph VSC comes on so you don't slide sideways.

To have VSC on from 0 mph but TRAC turned off means you could have a hard time starting to move. Why do you think they have VSC on when it is not needed but TRAC turned off when it is most needed??

DISCUSS!

 

I will reiterate, glad of the friendliness.
On the OR Auto, in 4hi, you can have precisely that.
Default 4hi, VSC and TRAC appear on. Short press gets TRAC-OFF and VSC-ON still (apparently). Which appears very much to me to be opposite of 2WD for short press.

Why essentially opposite combinations in 2Hi vs 4Hi ? Dont know, but not making sense to me (as to Why they did that... I am essentially positive that they did do that...)

 

I see your point. But I do think they killed off TRAC without engine regulation in H4 which I admit is unfortunate. It would be a useful mode. I think it was replaced with 4Hi full trac, 4Hi no trac. The in between mode no longer exists. That was an oddity if you will in the 2009-2011 models. It's totally possible I'm wrong but this makes the most sense to me and lines up with everything presented here. In particular this exact mode has been tested on 3rd gens and no traction control was present. Perhaps it existed on 2012+ 2nd gens, I don't know but I doubt it.

As for why you would need TRAC OFF and VSC ON...this goes back to my big post awhile back that explained the difference between the two systems. They are very different systems. They use the same functions to accomplish their goals but the circumstances in which they step in are very different. TRAC is for traction control. VSC is for stability control. VSC does not care if you are slipping from a start. It is not going to step in in that scenario. The purpose of TRAC OFF VSC ON is a situation where TRAC is failing to do it's job. I imagine most people here have been in this situation. TRAC is not fool proof. If the slipping is so excessive that TRAC is constantly cutting engine power you need to turn that shit off and just power through it. This is where TRAC OFF VSC ON is used. TRAC OFF VSC OFF would provide the same result but I think Toyota wanted to put that down an extra layer to keep people from turning VSC off. I think Toyota really doesn't want you to have VSC off. VSC is the one that saves you from a bad crash, not TRAC. So they let you turn TRAC OFF with a quick press of a button even while on the move but they are gonna keep VSC on...you don't need it off to get unstuck. If you really really don't want any of their shit saving you, you have to stop the truck hold the button down and turn everything off.

 

Exactly why "TRAC OFF MODE" [as it is for 2nd gens: TRACtion control is ON, but the engine regulation is OFF] is the bomb as there is NO throttle cut as there is in normal TRAC).

VSC is what you say, exactly (as is TRAC)... But, at 0-(xx?) mph has no real purpose as a sideways skid is not likely to be as big a problem is it is at highway speed... Still, it does happen in soft stuff! The beep-beep-beep (VSC active indicator) goes off a lot when I am squirling around at maybe 20-30 mph in silt or sand. It can be so annoying to some, that they will go to VSC OFF just to silence it off roading. I like knowing my truck computer is yelling at me to slow down! Kind of like HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey saying, "What are you doing Dave?"

You need TRAC (or AUTO LSD) of some sort to control wheel spin so you can get moving. Sounds like you are saying VSC is the Traction Control to get you moving from 0 mph in your new TRAC OFF MODE? This of course contradicts all that is known as the purpose of VSC. We do know VSC and TRAC/AUTO LSD/TRAC OFF is controlled by the same button and it is an ABS brake system.

Because of this, I still think TRAC OFF is traction control... at least when VSC is on (because VSC is not a traction control). TRAC OFF with VSC OFF is no TRAC or VSC, we all agree.

 

Why the 12-15's, nothing changed on 4wd systems between 11 -12 And possibly back as far as '09. It's confusing.

 

No, not at all. There is no traction control in TRAC OFF. Period. There is VSC but not traction control.

Your confusion lies in the thought that TRAC OFF provides more traction control. I think this stems from the mis-defined TRAC OFF mode in that triangle chart. TRAC OFF providing more traction control makes zero sense if you take that chart out of the equation. And I know that's a Toyota document. I think the intern or whoever was responsible for writing that up chose very poor terminology for "TRAC OFF MODE". Either way it doesn't apply in 4Hi. That's only applicable to 2wd.

I totally get what you are saying. ALSD in 4Hi would be a great mode to replace 4Hi TRAC OFF. I would prefer it but it's just not there according to the lights on the dash and the testing done on 3rd gens. Further I believe what we have will get the job done in nearly every circumstance. If you need TRAC, then leave TRAC on. If TRAC is failing (which it does) turn it off and see if you can rock it out with unlimited power no traction control. There are scenarios where this is the case. It may seem contradictory if you believe TRAC is the way out of everything but it's not. Toyota even explicitly says this in the manual.

 

I'm thinking exactly the same thing. One almost has to forget about anything that was previously written in the manuals about what mode has the most traction and instead focus on what the real world testing has shown. And that is TRAC-OFF does not provide more traction, but instead provides unregulated power to the wheels

 

That made me burst out loud laughing uncontrollably!!!! One would be led to believe it’s the intern’s fault!!

 

Not sure if we have a good connection amigo... Let me try it this way:

In 2012, Toyota added a selectable mode (and light) called TRAC OFF in H4 (4WD HIGH).

Before the 2012 model, (2009-2011) a quick push of the VSC button did nothing, turned on nothing. The 4WD mode was called TRAC but unlike 2WD TRAC, there was no engine regulation so you had maximum power in 4WD HIGH (no throttle cut, only braking of a slipping tire). In a sense the very same as AUTO LSD (TRAC OFF) was (and still is?) in 2WD.

The 2012 model added a quick press button feature that now turned on a "TRAC OFF" light. So, to simplify and correct the mode called "TRAC" in H4, it was now made to do the same as TRAC in H2, ie. regulate the engine output as well as brake force to slow a spinning tire. The TRAC OFF mode (quick push) removes the engine regulation for full potential to power through the obstacle. In all these years, nobody with a 2012-2015 has disputed this being the case... But who knows??? We only have the tech chart for 2009-2011 Tacomas.

I do know my 2010 TRAC 4WD is great, has no throttle cut, and about climbs as well as open diff (VSC OFF) low range, perhaps better.

 

Ya my '11 has the same features you just mentioned that 12-15's have. My 4hi is regulated till I turn Trac off.

 

I don't get why have a button to push to give you LESS (quick push = TRAC OFF)... like why bother? It makes all the sense (to old me) to push a button when the normal mode isn't enough... Just like part-time 4WD. If you don't need the extra traction, you don't turn on the 4WD.

I am getting long winded (what's new) with this, but here is my natural progression as the road gets worse. You will see I never have VSC OFF MODE intentionally set as I see no benefit for a free spinning tire while the other does nothing (but I don't live in snow, either):
1) H2 (TRAC)
2) H2 (AUTO LSD/TRAC OFF)
3) H4 (TRAC)
4) H4 (TRAC OFF, 2012+)
5) L4 (A-TRAC ON)
6) L4 (A-TRAC + REAR LOCKER, if pulling a stuck rig or in deep snow for speed)

 

Quick push of button moving or stopped and a TRAC OFF light comes on?
Could be a TX thing??? You got it before the rest of the Tacomas, maybe??

 

I don't think it's a TX thing, it was built late in the year. I really don't know.