LED Lighting Conversion

I can't say enough good things about the improved visibility I have with the "garbage" I bought.

 

You are completely right. Repeating the same information 1000x but having people ‘feel good’ about their LEDs and the vendors making outrageous claims which people get suckered into and then claim no these LEDs are ‘different’ earlier in the thread leads to turs delivery. I’ve already posted 3x in here on articles why LEDs are a poor product and why it will cause lack of distance throw and poor beam consistency but increased deceptive foreground light, however people feel these are ‘different’. Unfortunately people see increased foreground whiter light due to the side firing LEDs not realizing they have lost their hot spot, distance projection and beam consistany and think this is an ‘upgrade’ and spread that false misinformation.

Just an example on specs alone, this ‘12000 lumen’ kit cites all 4 LEDs operating on both bulbs operating at once, even though only 2 of the 4 chips operate at a time. Citing specs for both bulbs simultaneously when industry standard is to cite one bulb at a time is a nice way to inflate your numbers. Right there it has gone from ‘12000 raw lumens’ to raw 6000 lumens per bulb, but then with only half the LEDs operating at once down to 3000 raw lumens available at one time. The very best LEDs like JW Speaker spec 60% conversion of raw to actual, meaning if these were ultra high quality costing hundreds of dollars each they would be about 1800 lumens, but at the price point they are not that caliber regardless of the marketing BS. They are likely in the 50% range at best if not less, making them around 1500 lumens or less, which is less than the standard basic halogen high beam bulb. Add the improper optics of the LED not uniformly lighting the reflector or projector is going to further degrade output by not having a focused beam. Sure the 3rd gen projectors will clean up scatter and glare, but that is very different than focus and projection. In short the specs alone (even likely overstated as they are) show you’ve been had.

By comparison a $7 H9 bulb in the 3rd gen projector is going to put out 2100 actual lumens, maintain all the correct optics to uniformly light the projector, maintain the hot spot, extend distance vision while providing a full uniform beam pattern (without misleadingly increasing foreground light). For $7 a bulb.

 

BS thread?

 

I appreciate the truth you drop in this thread, so please don't stop correcting misconceptions. This is a perfect example of marketing over performance, and the LED marketing seems to be winning despite the under performance. I think for many people in this thread LEDs are about looks, and if that is what floats their boat then good for them. I have a set of HIKARIs on order from the raving reviews here, but I have no problem sending them back if they don't live up to the hype. I will say I like my HIDs though, and likely will keep them.

 

Is it the Hikari's that only light up 2 of the four diodes? I appreciate the info its just not that specific.

 

As I stated a while ago in another thread of yours, I appreciate the testing that you have personnaly done. It is exactly what we are also striving to do here (minus the light measuring tools because none of us seem own any).

That being said, it doesn't give you or anyone else the right to be such an a effinn @$s to those who happen to dissagree with you.

Yes, it's well known that companies over-inflate their specs...which is why it has never been a thing that is touted in here. Sometimes I see people mention the lumens output, but that's only to help them cofirm that they are looking at the same product. It's not because they saw this bulb had more lumen output listed than another bulb so it must be better. After the past comments from you over the past few weeks, I honestly think that you have not read through this thread which makes you come across as even more of an a-hole (regardless if that's what you are trying to do).

So please just chill the hell out and so we can all have a constructive discussion and instead of a one-sided lecture on how much better your stuff is while everything else is just stupid without any proof.

And please keep in mind that this thread is for LEDs first and formost. It's fine to compare LEDs to other bulbs (which I totally encourage), but simply bashing all LEDs because the ones you have tested have had poor distance projection or beam consistancy is not the way to go with your discussions. Save it for your other threads.

What would be most helpful is if you actually nab some of these newer LEDs and help us do some real testing on them...and I'm not just talking about the cheaper ones with rediculouly inflated marketing numbers. Like we said earlier, check out the NEWER H11 Hikari's bulb that others have recently ordered. Beyond that, there are the new VLED Micros, the new Diode Dynamics SL1 LEDs, or the Headlight Revolution GTR Gen 3's that I'm sure everyone would like to see tested and compared...mainly because they are quite expensive but look promising. There are a TON of others (as I'm sure you've seen on Amazon alone), but it's harder for me to know which one is the latest and greatest (ie, ones worth testing). I only got lucky when I accidently stumbled on the new Hikari's when they still had no reviews.

Regardless of what you end up testing (if any), but for the majority of the people, the best results will be from comparisons to OEM/stock bulbs under the same conditions. Although it is nice to know how they compare to other LED manufacturers (and also other non-LED options such as HID), the common demoninator for all of us is the OEM bulbs that we can ALL relate to.

I'm excited to see what you discover from what is being tested in your LED rack you just posted earlier (just because it I'm bet it'll be awesome), but to help your argument in this thread, we need to see more LEDs tested in the stock Tacoma housings and not in a stand-alone housings like you have on your LED rack.

 

That doesn't look like the newest Hikari's and it doesn't look like the H11 version either. If you look at their newer Hikari's here, scroll down to the product description. There you see a comparision that shows their older bulb (that looks like the one you just posted).

 

Damn

 

Yea sorry, so far I gotta go with what I've seen with my own eyes. Those were simple, real world tests by people I have no reason to doubt. I'll keep an open mind though and make it easy, just show me the evidence that proves them wrong.

 

Does anybody have the link or knowledge on how to retrofit your own headlights??? Been looking at them and i would like try it out. Plus if i can install. RGBW halo lights that would be cool as hell!

 

Welcome to the forum , though you might be sorry you wondered into this thread.

Retrofitting headlight assemblies from what I've heard are not everyone's cup of tea. It's time consuming for one so unless you're working on a spare set or just drive during daylight hours your gonna be without your truck until your done. You might be seriously good at it though and be able to finish in a day.

I've read you need to bake the housing in an oven, until the seal that holds the lens to the back softens enough that you can pry them apart. Then you need to carefully remove all of that from both halves with a dremmel or similar grinding tool. Once your finished doing whatever it is you wanted to do inside you then glue the two halves back together and I think to ensure a proper seal, bake them again so the glue seals evenly and completely. Then pray you have no leaks. Of course if you do, you've got the experience of taking them apart so the second time will definitely be easier.

Not to sound like an ass hat but have you searched the forum. I only know what I've read on the forum in various posts. This thread is geared more towards plug and play replacements for the OEM halogen bulbs in our trucks. We do go off on tangents from time to time and post up other products like smoked headlight or tail light kits, but for the most part it's just LED upgrades with some HID talk thrown in.

 

damn wasnt trying to start things here. That was a great write up I was sent to but really didnt answer my question. (I quoted myself so it is seen)
I just want to know the bulb number that people have used for map and reverse.

 

this is what I mean. both bulbs say 194 on superled
sylvania (was only looking for number not buying their bulbs) says reverse is 921 and map is 2825.
Also assuming the bulbs need to be canbus to avoid hyper?
I dont know so I ask.


ps. I have an 18 if that matters but most sites arent showing 18s

 

Yes, you are right. I can be condescending. It is when people receive new information and facts that contradict their previously held understanding and rather than adapting and expanding their knowledge they double down on their old beliefs that I will be terse. There is way too much of that narrow mind set in this world. But you are right that is not very constructive, I will work on being more constructive. And the previous statement was not meant as inflammatory. I have been proven wrong on lighting in the past by some industry experts, and rather than stay steadfast in my previous convictions, I took in the information and used it to become more knowledgeable on the topic.

Yes, I realize this is an LED conversion thread, but it doesn't change that LEDs are fundamentally flawed for the halogen headlight assembly. It doesn't matter what new versions or new LEDs come out. The optics are incorrect. I know everyone is tired of hearing it. I'll leave it at that. I actually usually leave 3rd gen LED threads alone, the projectors won't glare and you just reduce the effectiveness of your own lighting without blinding anyone. But I had multiple people contact me to about the LED headlights in this thread and pointed to the popularity of this thread thinking somehow these headlights are different. And this is how mis-information snowballs.

For light testing I'll throw money away on a few products like this one for educational purposes, but my focus is to produce the best possible output with a quality beam. That is never going to be an LED in a halogen housing, so I am not going to put money/time/effort in something I know from an engineering standpoint doesn't work.

As for the light rack and testing LEDs in stock Tacoma housings, you are missing the point (not trying to be rude). LEDs in stock Tacoma halogen housings will never work correctly. The purpose of the light rack is all those lights (except one) can mount in the stock Tacoma fog location. The rack is built to the stock Pro foglight height and spread. All lights have all been designed from the ground up with LED optics to match their LED light source and the majority are SAE J583 fog compliant which is purpose made for that location and results in uniform light spread with a good beam pattern and no glare. This resolves the entire issue we have been debating and will also out perform putting LEDs in the factory halogen foglight. I purchased every single SAE J583 LED fog that I could find which can be mounted on the Tacoma in the stock location to determine which is the highest performing light with a good beam pattern. I put some others in there to help educate people on beam pattern differences and why they are important. The rack and future thread is to find a real engineered solution for the best LED foglight possible. That is the kind of light testing I find worthwhile. A challenge I have on the project is figuring out how to measure output of a forward facing LED light vs a reflector based LED light. The intensity of a forward facing LED vs the more distributed light from a reflector will not make comparing output at the lens surface very meaningful between the two. I've consulted my engineering team and we have come up with some pretty complicated solutions but I haven't been satisfied with any so far.


Anyway, on to the HIKARIs!

I ordered the HIKARI bulbs from the original link. They are the H4s which isn't a perfect comparison for the H11, but the 2nd Gen takes H4s. I now see the design is different/updated on the H11s, which I did not scrutinize before ordering, but regardless I ran them though some tests anyway.

Some initial product notes:
-They have a semi-innovative collar design which should allow retention of the boots. I say semi because it could be done a lot better. The light is removable from the 3 tab collar mount so you can install the mount then install the boot and inset the LED in afterward. However the twist lock design does not fix the LED bulb into the exact orientation when it locks in place giving an awful beam pattern. You must then rotate the LED by hand while looking at the pattern on the wall to make sure you have it oriented correctly. I pulled it back out and noticed the 'locked' position is about 15 degrees off of where it should be. Headlights are precision instruments, there should me no free handing of the light source to correct the beam. For you 3rd Gen projector guys, if you have these lights and rotated the light till it 'clicked' or locked in place it is likely not properly aligned and your beam is suffering because of it but you might not know because your projector light shield cleans up the evidence. Wall test the rotation or pull the collar out and look at the LED orientation when it clicks in place compared to the mounting tabs on the collar. The LEDs should be level horizontally right and left.

-These have fans. No modern LED should be running microprocessor cooling fans in an engine bay which are prone to failure and noisy. I can hear the whirring of the lights when they are on if I am outside of the truck or in the truck with it off. Passive cooling technologies which are not prone to failure, are silent and use no power is common now, and cheap. Cooling fans are a very dated LED technology.

-On the H4 model, the glare guards are large and not close to the LED chip. Comparing to Philips which almost looks exactly like a halogen bulb glare guard, these are very different. Cannot say better or worse, but significantly different. In competition with Philips I think it is safe to say not as good.



This is the type of wall shot many people post, super close which really does not provide any information other than beam color. Subtle changes in the beam that are difficult to see are extremely magnified at distance due to basic geometry. A few degrees up close is a short distance on a wall, but those subtle shifts projected over a great distance have a big impact. This is also similarly part of the reason why small shifts in the LED chip placement compared to a tiny wire halogen filament inside the housing have such a negative effect on the beam.




Backing away from the wall, it is easy to tell the LED beam pattern lacks saturation and has exceptionally poor spread. The beam is very narrow and you almost cannot even see the edge of the garage door on the passenger side. This is going to cause a significant loss in peripheral illumination.




While this is not an issue in the 3rd Gen projectors, even with the glare shields in the H4 version of the LED, there is still glare.




I try to tell people about uniform housing illumination, which applies to both projector and reflectors but can likely only be easily seen in a reflector. Non-uniform illumination, or failure to illuminate the upper portion of the housing will affect the beams projection distance (aka throw). This is another part of the reason LEDs fail to project distance when they are put in a housing that wasn't designed for them.

Before cleaning, the dirty housing showed this effect nicely with a clear lack of illumination 'V' above the bulb. This is due to the LEDs being a directional light source, and having them in a side firing configuration. There is no light going to the upper part of the housing.



You can still see this very easily after then lenses were cleaned.




Compared to the halogen light source they were designed for which you can tell has a very even illumination line across the top of the reflector to produce a fully saturated and evenly spread beam.



While many may pass this off as no big deal, loss of distance illumination is a significant hazard. If your projectors increase foreground light with LEDs the problem is further compounded by having your eyes constrict due to the foreground light causing your eyes have less effective night vision so you cannot see as far while also having your headlights not project as far and artificially giving you more confidence that you can see due to the foreground. This is also why you should not drive with your fog lights on unless they are necessary. Seeing an obstacle at night sooner with less constricted pupils and better beam projection gives more time to maneuver or brake if there is an obstacle in the roadway. Fractions of a second count. This is the premise behind the very successful +130 type bulbs that are made with a more precise filament to get a more concentrated hot spot for better beam distance projection. Further controlled distance projection is safer. If you look at the filament winding of a high efficiency bulb like Philips +130 and a standard bulb, you will see there is a difference in the filament winding being tighter and more concise in the +130. If small changes in coil wind and filament precision can make 130% more light in the hot spot, putting direction LED chips millimeters off center is going to have the significant opposite effect.

Working with an LED lighting company, I learned to accurately test output of LEDs, you need a specialized and quite a bit more expensive LED light meter. Traditional light meter makes assumptions that all parts of the light spectrum will be present, so it samples a few points in the spectrum to create a reading, which works in an incandescent light source because they are full spectrum lights. LEDs have significant gaps in the light spectrum they produce, which is why they wash out color and cause a loss of color contrast. An LED meter must be set to take samples at the right color spectrum for the light source for an accurate reading. The readings below are with a professional grade LED meter.

Here is a 1750 lumen performance halogen, 907 lux (scaled 100x)




Here is the HIKARI LED, 634 lux (scaled 100x)



Since halogen bulbs publish factual specs (vs LEDs theoretical ones) you can do a little math to back calculate a very roughly ballpark output estimate. 634 lux /907 lux = 0.7 So if the LEDs put out 70% of the halogens, and we know the halogens are 1750 lumens, then 1750*0.7=1225 lumens. Which I wasn't that far off when looking at their 12,000 lumen claim and said it would be 1500 lumens or less. Now this is oversimplified and doesn't take into account the bad optics of the LED, but it gives a decent ballpark comparison for effective output. For an apples to oranges comparison, a stock H11 halogen bulb puts out about 1300 lumens.

Here is a less than ideal output comparison shot. Halogen Driver, LED passenger. Practically no passenger side peripheral illumination.



Now all these photos were taken with my upgraded 1750 lumen H4 halogen headlights. In a 3rd Gen, you can run 2100 lumen H9 headlights that will notably outperform my 1750 lumen H4s, and cost about $15 for the set. Maybe I'll swap back to a stock bulb for another comparison.

The listing advertises these LED lights as 'DOT Compliant'. They are not. DOT compliance is a self certification program to which a product is designed and tested to meet specific beam pattern criteria as specified by SAE's beam pattern definitions by the company making the product. The compliance classification then is only as good as the company is reputable. These LEDs clearly fail to meet the standard headlight beam pattern.

I was referring to the H4, 2 diodes are for low beam and 2 are for high beam. Low beam and high beam do not operate at the same time. An H11 does not have a high beam.

 

I use my low beams 95% of the time since I currently live in an urban environment (sigh), and opted for HID conversion for the factory projectors. So far they work fine for me, but I can see that they are not the ideal solution. Moving on, high beams; since I will rarely use these anyway I wanted to try out the H11 HIKARI bulbs mentioned here and see what they look like off-road. My thought process, and correct me if I'm wrong, was I don't really care so much about distance viewing, what I want is maximum dispersement so I can see everything around me. A light bar would be a better solution I'm sure, but I thought I'd give this a try first.

 

I read somewhere that I should avoid the CREEs. Anyone have a good comparison on Nineo's (CREE) vs Hikari's (Phillips)?

Pretty much sold on the Hikari's but curious to know about the Nineo's before I "Proceed to Checkout".

 

Awesome post and thank you! I personnally found it informative (even though it's for a different bulb in a 2nd gen housing). It definitely helps highlight what they should be looking out for when putting in new LEDs. I always knew that the light dispersion within the reflective housing was the primary reason that LEDs did not perform as well as they should, but it is quite surprising to see just how much of your housing is not being lit up!!! I remember seeing a video by Headlight Revolution that also showed the effects of reduced light output due to bad light dispersion patterns by some LEDs inside a reflective housing. Heck I thin it might have been one posted much ealier in this thread that might worth showing again.

I know that at least one of those LED manufacturers (I think it was VLED) have an adjustable collar so that it can be properly installed with the LEDs firing horizontally. The problem that I noticed with our projectors is that I cannot really see into the headlight (through the lens) to see if the LEDs are perfectly horizontal. The magnification of the projector lens distorts things too much for me to see anything of the bulb itself. Granted, I was looking at my HID bulbs while I was in the garage, so maybe it's more defined/easier to see if an actual LED bulb was in there and I was in better lighting conditions outside. Maybe someone else can chime in to let us know how close to horizontal their LED bulbs sit iniside their headlights??


When looking at the bad light dispersion of the LED in your pictures, it does look much worse than some of the other LED patterns that others have recently posted in this thread. It could be because of the projector vs reflective headlight housing and/or it could be because of the difference in exposure of the camera. Unfortunately, it's something we can't directly compare (unless someone can bring a 3rd gen up to @crashnburn80 to help out)!

As you have said, LEDs in a stock halogen housing will never work perfectly...meaning that it will not produce a near perfect light output that would give the peak performance (lux or lumen rating) that the LED should get. But I'm confident by what others have been posting in this thread, along with others, that some of these LEDs in the 3rd gen projector housing are definitely better than stock halogen despite the lack of perfect light dispersion and output. Granted, the stock bulbs set the bar really low.





I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your fog light testing!! I've been hesitant to drop $$$ on fog lights that obviously perform well (such as the Baja Designs), but is also overkill for my needs (and for my wallet). Currently, I'm in the same boat as @silasvirus82 where the vast majority of my driving is in a urban environment. For me, I'm more concerned about blinding others while still alluminating potholes and stray dogs (at much slower speeds) than anything else. Of course, that may change once I move this summer, but I digress. Anyways, what lenses did you get for these foglights (ie: spot/focused, dispersed/wide, or combo)? Once you finish it, you should post a link of that new thread inside this thread since upgrading fogs to LEDs are also part of the discussions here.

 

Used the following bulbs:

194 for Maps lights & the license plate lights
921 for the reverse lights
31mm long festoons for the dome light
7443 for the Brake lights & the turn signals*
H11 for the Low Beams, High Beams, and Fog Lights
??mm long festoons for the vanity lights (I haven't upgraded these yet, so maybe someone else can chime in).

*Hyperflashing is only an issue for the turn signals (both front and back). All other bulbs are usually a direct replacement. For the turn signals, most LEDs will need a resistor spliced into the turn signal wiring (at each corner) to prevent this. However, there are some brands (such as VLED) that built in enough resistance so that you don't need to add a resistor. You'd have to go search this thread to see which ones worked without resistors.


Also note that there is more than one type of bulb that can fit into our lights...I just listed the common bulb numbers above. For instance, the reverse/turn signals can also have 7440 bulbs. The Headlights can also fit H8 and H9 bulbs. Also, the map lights can fit 168 bulbs. They all have slight differences, but the base connector is the same.

 

bottom one a typo?