Permanent Rausch Creek thread

I prey on the weak!

 

@stairgod can you chime in on the importance of up travel. Here is the scenario, I’m thinking about getting custom Kings in the rear from DSM. Basically setting the Ext 28/29 and compression 17/18. Or whatever is possible similar to b110s. Right now timbren bump stops are stopping the b110s at 18.75-18 max I would guess when conpressed. They are super stout. I guess what I’m trying to figure out is if I should really gaf about up travel as much as down travel.

B110s are useless with all the weight in the rear now with regards to shock absorption.

 

And I believe a rear shock relocate would be the only way to gain more uptravel along with additional down?

 

This is what I’ve been reading also Joe. Thanks for chiming in! Honestly I haven’t wanted to splurge on shock relocates because A) I don’t weld B) I don’t have friends close that weld that will do it for a case of beers and some bbq. But In any case after reading multiple threads my feels are that the relocate makes your rig more of a multitasking truck that you could potentially go fast and crawl in one package

 

@bski22 I worry about total travel moreso than either up or down. More travel adds to articulation, articulation adds to traction, and traction is what gets you past an obstacle.
For many people, the extra 2" of travel is negligible. But that extra could mean the difference between having to pull winch cable or not.
If your bumps are limiting travel, then by all means move/modify them so that the up travel is stopped within 1/4"-1/2" of shock compression. That will maximize travel but still protect the shock.
Also, I do not run limit straps on the rear. The shocks are much stronger under tension(full droop) than they are under compression(full bump). Plus I do not usually run high speed where full droop would happen rapidly(i.e. go fast desert, jumping, et al).
Honestly for your situation, stock location with longer shocks and properly set bump stops sounds optimal.

 

Hmmm It'd be stealth for me.... but I'm nfg fo life. Haha

 

Pretty much this. Total travel matters, and so does ride height, but they are independent of each other.

Getting more travel out of the rear end also let's you use all the travel in your front end.

 

I'll add to this. Even slow speed stuff it may be good to go limit straps for those times the rear/from bounce for you are loading and unloading the suspension rapidly thus hammering on the shock like high speed droop would do. It is not good for shocks to be the limiting factor within the suspension for it can damage the valving not just the strength of the shock, and I would argue it is not as strong fully extended because there is moer of a fulcrum on the valve where a hit in a sideways fore or aft direction could bend the shock easily. I do not run limit straps in the rear of my truck either, but think that knowing all the factors so people can make their own choices.

The way @Blackout14 explained the necessity of droop and compression is spot on. But still even in the high speed stuff those guys still have far more droop than compression when static sitting at ride height.

There is a lot of math and circumstances but I have some really good books on suspension design, set up, shocks etc that can explain it far better than I would ever be able to.

 

I was referring to shock failure mostly. Most shocks will be damaged far more easily by being over compressed than over extended. I must clarify that I am talking about internally bumped shocks and COs, as this is what most will be using.

And again as far as travel % goes, same thing. Most will not need to set up their trucks beyond the norm for moderate wheeling/DD use. No one is going to be driving around with an inch of bump travel and 22" of droop like the old stadium trucks.

 

Got ya. So if they are internally bumped then how are they damaged more easily by being over compressed? Or are they only internally bumped in droop?

 

So right now I have roughly 3.5 inches of bump but at static height I also have roughly 8” of droop/extension whatever term (down travel). I read that the ratios should or would be recognized in a median ratio of 1:3 (bump/droop). I guess I’m within range of a above average dd to wheeling truck at this point. With no future plans of hydro bumps a la king or icon. I just wanted to smooth out the feel. Because having King’s up front and bilsteins in the rear (front being 2.5 with resi and rear 2.0 bilsteins) no offence to the bilsteins but there is 100% a dramatic difference in shock absorption.

Edit: I’m guessing but that to bump distance might be closer to 2.75

 

The shock rod will bend more easily under compression. Anything steel or alloy there of is much weaker in compression than in tension.
@Blackout14 had a shock failure that more than likely left his valving intact, but destroyed the shock body. Eh Joe?

And IIRC the Kings I have on my truck are internally bumped both ways.
My rears are at about 5" bump/7" droop and I usually only have one side dropped out at a time. Don't think I have ever had them both at full droop even during spirited speed bump bashing.
Now the fronts are a different story. Cranked then too much and I top out all the time on the trail if I get a little skinny pedal happy. Only added limit straps a few months ago to the front to deal with a CV issue.

 

Are you hitting your bumps during street driving? I doubt the Billies are valved tighter than Kings would be

 

Get into the higher end bilsteins and they are comparable to kings and the like but they don't make them with our stock mounts unless you call them and get them to do a custom mount set up or you make mounts for them. What you have for the bump to droop ratio is good. So to find out your true compression and rebound take the full extended height then the full compressed height then your length at ride height and do the math, if that is what you did to get those #s then those are your true compression and droop ability.

Yeah the terms are all over the place you have compression & bump then droop, rebound, and extension. I am sure I am forgetting some.

 

I had assumed it happened due to full compression (over compression). With the forces at play to snap the lower mount off at droop, there would have to have been an issue with the welds or something similar.

 

Rob, I just checked your build. Do you have both overloads on those Dakars? And how much compression do you have before the bumps hit?
Iirc, Timbrens are a progressive bump stop, so you should not be getting ride harshness from them.
With the extra leaf and the weight you have, it sounds like your too overload is coming into play during the normal cycle, and that is what is causing ride harshness. My set up is similar to yours, except my shackle flip has my ass end higher.

 

Like I said more of a fulcrum when things are extended that far out. Most all shock failures I have seen, besides damaging the piston, were from extension due to added fulcrum and failed bending where the shaft and body meet. Aren't the ends that hold the heim joints aluminum and threaded onto the shaft and shock body?

 

That be a huge lower!
With that much preload I think you actually got into could bind, but without being familiar with those COs I can't say for sure. But glad y'all got Kings...lol

 

That makes a big difference if overloads are being used during normal use without extra weight.