Philly tasered 17year old

See, you have to think about consequences about your actions as a intelligent adult, especially when you are in power. It should go like this...(thinking inside head) Hmm. should I taser this punks ass or should I just tackle him?.. Well if I tase him, knowing that there are reported cases of deaths when being tased, then I might accidently kill him, is potential death worthy of his crime... Hmm.. if I tackle him I might hurt him, but probably not kill him, could I break his neck, maybe, so I'll aim low.. I'll just man up and tackle this kid.. oh with a little knee to the ribs just to make him think twice next time...

Don't think you know what I would say, you don't know me..

I think jumping his ass would be completely justified and his actions caused the end result if he broke his neck. But to use the most extreme rememdy to such a simple issue, is truely unjustified.

 

I'm glad that you take such time and effort to walk us through the thought process that should have occurred in the cop's head. Have you given any thought at all to the thought process that should have gone through the head of the kid?

Something like, "Hmm... I want to look cool for my friends and these pretty girls. I could take off my shirt and lay in the sun... or I could chug a beer... or I could run on the field. Yeah, that's it! Now let's see... Laying in the sun or chugging a beer doesn't hurt anybody at all - except maybe my liver. Running on the field will stop the game, and will probably get me arrested. I've also seen these cops carrying guns and tasers... so that's a possibility, too...

SCREW IT, I'm going!!!"

 

because there are not 15,000 cops, cells, or cop cars to transport them. we use to see that every year after the Clemosn/Carolina game and they would actually tear down the goal posts and throw them in the reflection pond. when this happens all the cops start sprayng pepper spray on EVERYONE. personally i'd rather be tased than hit in the face with the spray. but despite the pepper spray the tradition of tearing down the goal post went on for decades. of course people dont want to be sprayed but they knew what they were getting into and made the choice to do it anyway, and i have no problem with that. they eventually put in motorized goal posts that lay down after the game.... i miss that tradition

 

I'm not concerned with the rights of criminals, but let's not confuse what the kid did with the appropriate means to enforce the law he broke, you're comparing felony acts to what this kid did. There needs to be common sense when it comes to enforcing laws. It's the saying, "just because you can doesn't mean you should". Yes, the kid should have not jumped out on the field, but his actions didn't justified getting tased. We just have a fundamental disagreement on why and when tasers should be used. This action by the kid was not the why or when to be used.

 

Agreed, same punishment goes for speeding, running red lights/stop signs and jay walking too.

 

i have no problem saying that if the kid died.... if the kid died, then obviously i would have a different opinion. tasing is not dangerous unless there is some kind of outlying issue and so i dont have a problem with it being used as often as it has been used in recent years. personally, i think this tasing was justified but other times (like the dont tase me bro guy) its just an obvious abuse of power. either way i'm sure we're not gonna convince each other to change our minds, and since you and i get along well in on other topics i wont push it. just wanted to be clear that i'm against abuses of power but i dont see this and being an abuse.

P.S. even though i am against abusing power i still plan on banning all you bastards when i finally get my banning powers

 

Fine. I'll agree that our disagreement is over the appropriate time/place to use a taser.

Your position is that he didn't deserve it for running on the field, and that a taser is only necessary in [please fill in the blank] types of situations.

My position is that the taser is very rarely a lethal weapon, and can/should be used in cases like this. I'm not saying there are no risks involved, but we could play the what-if game all day, and I'm tired of people asking "what if the kid had died?" He didn't.

The article that pointed out that 334 people have died - then went on to say most of those people died likely due to other factors, and of the 50 who were killed by a taser alone, many of them were tased multiple times - doesn't convince me that we should consider a taser a use of deadly force and treat it as such.

All kinds of things kill people very rarely, and we do/use them every day. I can't say for certain that tear gas has every killed somebody, but I can imagine that a person w/ a sever alergy could be killed by it. To me, that doesn't mean we should refrain from using it on unruly crowds.

 

i cant completely relate to this. there is something about not being in the right state of mind that makes people insanely strong. when i worked at the mental hospital we had both crazy patients and retarded patients. and they were many times stronger than you would have thought by looking at them. i'm also familiar with supposedly harmless people taking you by surprise. i made the mistake of thinking a dude in a wheel chair was helpless. he came wheeling up to me one day with a big friendly smile asking if i could let him make a phone call. next think i know he's out of the chair and both hands are around my neck and the look on his face while he tried to choke me is something i'll never forget. point is, i thought he was harmless and friendly, turns out he was dangerous and pissed. you never know how someone is going to react until they react.

 

I won't ban you, I love to debate.. You can ban me if you want but your post count won't go up as fast!!

 

i forgot about the best story. one of our patients was a big dude in his late teens who was moderately retarded. we loved this guy, he was sweet and nice and always tried to help out. we all felt bad that his family life was so shitty he had to be in the hospital. he wasn't crazy, just huge with the mentality of a kid. well he got picked on and decided to hit the guy picking on him. none of us had a problem with that (the bully had it coming) but we still had to seperate him from teh group. We went to go talk to the the dude that was getting picked on. when we told him he had to go back to the pod until a doctor could evaluate him, he pulled out a huge shiv. his dad had borken his arm and his sling/cast thing had a metal strip in it. he had been taking it out every night and sharpening it on the concrete floor. so here is a guy who had never done anything but be nice. we all liked him and he liked us and in a flash he had a 7 inch shiv. when everything was said and done one of our guys was out for a couple months for a broken ankle and the other was out for aobut a week with a fucked up back. not a sinlge person in that hospital would have ever even considered him capable of violence before that

 

dont take it personal, i plan on banning every single member

 

Oh good, as long as you're not targeting the married ones.

 

Not so fast there COWBOY---look at the British soccer games and the mayhem and death that goes with the fans of those teams. Our boy in Philly, albeit ate up with the dumbass doesn't come close to those european guys. But still who wants to be the first to meet an armed kid. Even if he was armed and shot first they're those folks who would say maybe they should have tased him....I say let's not second guess the cop. He thought he had to taze him and that's good enough for me. The dumbass could have stopped at any time...personally I say let's all of TW meet in Philly then line up so we can bitch slap him, drink beer and talk about our trucks.....and make him listen!!!!! (LOL)

 

I'm catching up on this thread after a long day at work...so I'll apologize if I come off a little gruff.

You post a study that says 50 of 334 deaths might have been "caused or contributed to" by a taser and then try to make it appear that employing a taser is going to have deadly consequences 100% of the time. THAT'S NOT TRUE.
Tiger said it- 17000 agencies use these devices around the country daily...and there are 50 reported deaths that might be related to their use?? You realize that getting out of bed puts you at risk right?? and so does staying IN bed...

They aren't non-lethal- they are less than lethal. The folks who don't like them push that non-lethal lie. Tiger also said that batons can be lethal, so can tackling, guns, and the occasional drop kick.
De-escalating the situation while maintain officer safety is at the forefront of any officers mind. If the "general public" for lack of a better word didn't put the cops at risk- they wouldn't need weapons. But sadly-Cops can't know if a seemingly innocuous kid running around a field is just a dumbass or is some kinda crazy, or drugged up, or trying to commit suicide by cop. So they make decisions.

 

There are actually more than 334 deaths since 2001, the study was back in 2008. The 50 mark was deducted that might be of a single tase, but that is also questionable. But what my general concensus was, or atleast what I was debating was that this incident of the kid running out on the field did not justify being tasered.

 

Buahaha, buahahahaha! Yes...this thread is still going! I thought about it at work today, and was sure it would die down.

nd...you seem preoccupied w/responding to my posts. Get a life.

This is the funnest thread ever!

 

Ok, so everyone can go look up the amount of deaths caused by Tasers. Some appear to ignore the safety for the individual at the other end of that device. While both articles have their bias I thought I would post the estimated statistics of lives saved through the use of Tasers. Note: This article is through 2005 and doesn't include statistics through 2010.

Estimated Lives Saved With TASER(R) Devices Passes 9,000 Mark.

Publication: PR Newswire
Publication Date: 18-NOV-05 Format: Online
Delivery: Immediate Online Access



Article Excerpt
Over 900 Documented Incidents of Lives Saved From Possible Death or Serious Injury Posted at TASER.com

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Nov. 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- TASER International, Inc. , a market leader in advanced electronic control devices today announced that the estimated number of incidents where a TASER device prevented possible death or serious injury has surpassed 9,000 as the company posted its database of over 900 documented life-saving incidents on its website at http://www.taser.com/.

"It is with a great sense of pride on behalf of our employees and our customers that we share these dramatic incidents where law enforcement officers have effectively used TASER(R) devices to prevent potential death or serious harm," said Rick Smith, CEO and co-founder of TASER International. "While we will never know how these situations would have turned out if TASER devices had not been on-scene, we know that our technology, coupled with the brave actions of the men and women of law enforcement, are making our communities safer and reducing human tragedy and suffering in dangerous situations."

"This updated report on lives saved comes the day after the Cincinnati Police Department released new statistics showing year-after-year decreases of 56 percent in police officer injuries and 35 percent in suspect injuries following their implementation of a TASER Officer Safety Program," continued Smith.

"We encourage people to visit our website and see for themselves the impact law enforcement agencies are having with this revolutionary technology. While segments of the media have focused on the much smaller number of unfortunate incidents where lives could not be saved, this is a moment when we can all reflect and appreciate the positive impact and recognize the life-saving efforts of law enforcement officers around the world as they protect our societies," concluded Mr. Smith.

The report is a compilation of incidents in which the use of a TASER electronic control devices potentially preserved life and/or prevented serious bodily harm. These incidents as reported via its on-line database by law enforcement agencies have been edited to remove identifiers of officers, suspects, and agencies. Grammar, spelling, and other errors generally have not been corrected; rather the entries are left as submitted. The estimate of the potential total lives saved from likely death or serious injury conservatively assumes only 10 percent of actual cases that are reported to TASER International as most major agencies do not share reports. The Company estimates that these 905 documented cases represent only one in ten actual cases, supporting an estimate of 9,000 total "saves" of the 8,000 law enforcement agencies deploying TASER technology.