Philly tasered 17year old

x2

So like TF stated earlier, you'd rather have him roughed up "behind the scenes" or "under the table" and then a civil suit brought against you that really destroys public opinion and trust? That shit's cool when you're in a dogpile after a big play in high school football, not on the streets.

TF and LEOs FTMFW

 

I think he absolutely should have! What he did was disrespectful! He could've gotten injured or injured someone else..plus you never know who your dealing with. The kid meant no harm, i'll give him that, but the Police didn't know that so...its his own fault honestly

Looked like fun though until the whole Taser thing came into play

 

Right there in bold highlighted - You dont understand me either....wow I really have to dumb it down I guess. I did not say anything about giving out punishments, what I said was UNLAWFUL USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE! I cant believe how many people dont realize how dangerous this is to our liberty! What you said in Bold above is completly irrelevant to what you were trying to prove me wrong about. You are talking about giving out forcefull punishments after they commited a crime.....come on, really? Thats not the issue here at all.

Hey in the end its all good man, Im sure your a cool guy, Im not trying to step on any toes here, Im just trying to wake people up......peacfully

 

that was awesome lol

 

So you are saying the punishment was the excessive force used by the cop to taser him? Im sorry, but that is wrong on so many levels. When you break the law it is not up to king shit cop out there to punish him with a taser because he thought the kid needed to be taught a lesson, we have laws and courts to decide and punish the kid for what he did as far as punishment goes, that is what I am saying. Tackle him, handcuff the idiot and take him to jail....simple, fair, & Constitutional. Excessive force like this just to "teach him a lesson" is absolutely unlawful, period.

 

No actually I do agree with you here, I do think we should hang those damn guys out on the lawn because they broke the law, are sick and deserve it and they should pay for it, along with most of our policicians also.......but thats another issue,Ha ha! Hell hang the kid out there too for all I care I agree, he deserves it, its fine punishment, but after he is detained lawfully and properly!

You are still not getting it though, If we the people allow this kind of UNLAWFUL excessive force, then eventually it will be accepted and only get worse as the years pass (History has proven this). Yes I do know our court system is absolutly horrible nowdays and Im sure its not going to get any better, especially if cops get to take the law into their own hands like this, and do whatever they please thats all I am saying here.

 

Perhaps accepting respoinsibility for his actions......

PHILADELPHIA - May 5, 2010 -- A lawyer representing a teenager Tasered by police after running onto the field at Philadelphia's Citizens Bank Park says the teen and his family apologize to the Phillies and the community.

 

Bones as much as I disagree with your empathy I can respect your position.

Take the law into their own hands? Is that not their job, react to situations based on training to enforce the law? Was the officer supposed to wait for orders to do something.
I am sure the LE didn't get up, ask the wife, honey I think I am going to bring the tazer to work today. that was issued as part of the uniform that the phillies, park owners and police commissioner have agreed upon.

here you have someone running across the field with something in their hand with unknown intentions. Far too many unknowns happening in a short time.

tackling someone can cause a broken rib(s) which can puncture a lung and cause other serious damage/symptoms.

This all could be a non-discussion point if the 17 yo respected a simple rule/law. Since he opted not to, forcing the LE to tazer, the LE/system is now under scrutiny.

I am glad to see the kid and family has apologized for the incident.

 

Let's everyone be positive on this...."no one asked him if he was here illegally so he wasn't profiled!" (sarcasm intended)

 

Good point Bones but I believe you have totally missed the discussion. The kids antics were witnessed by several million people. Sorry I don't need a judge and jury to help convince me of his guilt or innoncence. I know what I saw. As far as going down the "far right path" as you have discussed you have taken a set of facts and misinterpreted (either by design or accident) what has happened. Annnnd if you are keeping up with the news a older gentleman did the same thing the next day and if memory serves me correctly he gave up. Glad you mentioned rights too...what about my right to watch tv and enjoy time away from the battle (work) without having some knucklehead ruin it for me and display poor examples of conduct to children or my grandchildren. "If he can do it why can't I!" I respect your opinion but it is your line of thinking that scares the hell out of me. Using this same line of thinking I would say you are probably against racial profiling...."I'm not!" I can't help thinking and wondering what were the last thoughts of those people on the airplane before it crashed into the ground in Pa or the plane that struck the twin towers or the pentagon. Yes this is extreme...but your point is where it begins...think about your comments then reason your way thru it. Once you (we) cross a line there is no going back to put the genie in the bottle. You may stop with the taser---others will take what you have done and run further...if not ask people around you about faith and the ACLU.

 

Tigerfan you are right on point and the restraint you show...how do you know the guy who tased this little weasel wasn't exercising restraint? You see you and he are the protectors of our freedom. But like this discussion shows there are many ways - lawful - to get to the same end. I disagree with some of the posts that says the kid was punished...he was not punished...he was apprehended...the court will decide the punishment in a a setting where there is no heightened need to stop an individual making a fool of himself.

I did your job for 5 years and I will say I will support the police when I see an action taken irregardless of what it was until I get the facts. I'm sure in your academy they gave you the example of a guy who shoots another man thru the window in his home because he was seeing his wife, and when the police came to investigate they charged him with murder. Yet the autopsy showed the guy died from a heart attack not a gun wound. Support the government in this case until we have the facts...and the facts are what you saw on TV....did this guy act of character...I think so and I would never ask you to hurt yourself unnecessarily for a nut job. By the way if your injured on the job why don't you tell us what are the great benefits you would receive if you couldn't work anymore...then tell me if you think the older guy should have tackled him....I know what the benefits are in Florida for the Highway patrol.....

 

Are we having a bad hair day?

 

The bolded line is the first and only thing I've been able to agree on with you for this entire thread.

The rest of your comments...about how dumb we all are....My mommy used to sing me a song when I was real young called "When the whole world is wrong and your the one who's right- it's time to go to sleep." And maybe, just maybe, the same kind sentiment can be applied to your alarmist views about the country today. Is the US being shrutted up by special interests and individuals- Yes. Is it anywhere near a police state?? No!!

The simple fact is- had 17 year old Joe Blow stayed off the field- He woulda been just fine. Are there other options the cop could had used- Yes...But with seconds to make a decision- He did what he did, within policy, and that's the way it goes. I'll bet you anything if it goes to court in the future- Cop comes out on top- cause it's justified.

 

so the Phillies had another guy run around the field...lol
too bad he didn't get tased, they changed policy from the original incident

the funny thing is,

now this is EPIC..!! lol

source

 

Agreed & agreed!

 

Some people just do not get it and see the world through rose colored glasses. The punk got what he deserved period and the officer was fully within policy to do just what he did.

There are some people in this world who will not do what the police ask them to do simply because they were asked nicely. Like it or not force has to be used at times and often this force must be sure and swift. If you hesitate for just a moment you could lose your life or be badly injured. I have been to way too many funerals of co-workers who responded to what others would see as a minor incident and was not at all what it appeared to be.

It is not the officers job to hold this kids hand and stroke his hair while saying "come on now little fella please stop disrupting this event" it is their job to stop the threat and yes until you know for sure you must treat these incidents as a threat.

I saw a training video where a two man car responded to a disorderly 15 year old who had assaulted his parents. The officers arrived and attempted to calmly talk to the kid which did not work. When the kid attacked the officers they still tried to handle him very easily. Their mistake allowed the kid to grab one officers weapon from his holster and kill the officer. The second officer shot and killed the child afterwards....and yes guess what there were thousands of people who said he was wrong to fire on the kid. Imagine that and I would ask those people if they would still feel that way if this "kid" was pointing that very weapon at them.

I have grown used to those who whine and complain and realize that they mostly just do not understand what some criminals will actually do. They also do not understand how an innocent looking stunt can quickly turn dangerous for first responders. Mix a little alcohol with the desire to impress your friends and an innocent kid can quickly become a threat.

The taser worked perfectly and is designed to quickly stop a threat without injury to the criminal or officer. If they had no taser they would have to go hands on and that is always more dangerous. It seems you can not satisfy some people no matter how you react. If the taser shot out sweet roses and played a happy tune there would be some who would complain that it was too harsh.

It is a simple fact, even if some do not agree, that some people will always exploit the weak. The moment an officer shows weakness they are in trouble. Many people are like sheep and sadly we are sworn to protect those who will not, or can not, protect themselves. Myself and thousands of others will continue to do just that in spite of those who simply do not understand.

 

As Tigerfan has already stated, he never said people were guilty until proven innocent. He said that people can all be considered threats. That's just being cautious. I know I'm not a threat to a LEO when I'm pulled over, but he doesn't, so he approaches me with caution like he approaches everybody. Threat... not guilty.

I think our society is going in the opposite direction that you apparently do. We give plenty of rights to the accused, and the convicted get plenty of opportunities to appeal (as they should). What makes me mad is the people who break the law, get hurt in the process, and then go after the people who hurt him. I don't see this massive shift in our society towards a police state that you do. Other than this dumb-shit getting tazed for breaking the law, can you give some more examples?

You can stop talking to all of us like we're morons any time you want. Your opinion is just that... it doesn't make you superior, and it doesn't make you smarter. Assuming we're all we-tall-did isn't going to help you convince us we're headed for the socialist state you see coming.

You believe it was excessive force, huh? (to be continued)

So you're one of those old-school guys I guess. One of those guys who's seen it all and lived through the deterioration of our nation, all the while bemoaning the fact that society is going to hell in a handbasket. You probably sit on your porch and shake your head at the hooligans who run around the neighborhood without discipline. You try to teach the grandkids that the world you grew up in was a better place, and you hope they can mold the world they live in into something more like it.

Oh.... wait.... you're 30. Get over your 'they just don't teach it anymore' crap.

Seriously... what makes you so much smarter than the rest of us? Please dumb that down for me, b/c I'm not seeing it yet.

Before you believed it was excessive force, and now you've proclaimed it "Unlawful use" of excessive force. You criticized one member for talking about how immediate punishment should be handed out without due process, and now you're declaring the actions of the LEO at the game as 'unlawful.' I didn't realize you were the judge in the case that will surely come out of this.

You're sure he's a cool guy and you don't want to step on any toes... just so long as he knows he's really dumb, right?

Again with the unlawful excessive force. Maybe there's a statute that I've never read that clearly defines this LEO's actions as unlawful... but without one, I don't know how you're declaring this unlawful. For a guy who seems to respect due process and the rights of the accused, you sure are coming down hard on the LEO for doing something that, at first, you said you believed was excessive force. How 'bout you take your own advice and let the system work. If it was unlawful, the LEO will face the consequences.

How did this cop 'take the law into his own hands?' In his opinion (and obviously not yours), the taser was the best way to put the kid on the ground. Unless you're in his head, and KNOW that his intent was to PUNISH the kid for breaking the law, then I don't know that you can say he was taking the law into his hands. He made what you believe was a poor decision, but his decision wasn't to punish the kid... it was to get him on the ground.

I'm glad to see that instead of, "We will be pressing charges against the officer and the city," though I don't know that the apology ruled out a lawsuit.

They should have changed the policy to say, "Come on the field and act a fool, you will get taken down. Guns and tasers will be used if we feel they are necessary." They should put it on the back of every ticket, so nobody can say that they didn't know (though 'ignorance of the law is not a defense,' as I was once told by a judge after getting a ticket for violating a noise ordinance I didn't know existed).

 

Thank you for working the streets of my (not so) fair city. I work downtown every day, and I'm thankful for guys like you every day.

 

Bones you keep using the term excessive force and it simply does not apply here at all. If the officer was to tackle this kid he stands a much greater chance of being hurt than using the taser. The taser is a much lesser form of force than a hard body tackle. If you were an officer you would know that we are not trained to tackle a threat and as such if doing so could be ruled as out of policy. We are trained on various strikes and impact weapons as well as ground fighting however the first rule of thumb is distance and safety.

You are simply out of line on this thinking I believe and again if this kid were a threat to you or your family would you tackle him if you had a taser on your belt? If you did tackle him and beat him senseless you would appear to be much more of a bully than if you tasered him and he had no visible injuries.

I have fought this fight with many civilians and have learned that some people simply will never get it. Some are truly passionate and believe they are right while others I believe are cowards and it makes them feel better to always talk down of those who are brave enough to protect others.

 

mws4ua thank you very much and yes I have been happy to work for Bham going on 13 years now. If you have been in Bham for some time you will remember when my 3 co-workers were killed a few years back during that ambush situation.

They first encountered the criminal hours before however it was a simple misdemeanor arrest warrant and they had to go pull the hard copy and return. They were very polite and did not really need to have the warrant in hand however they did so to avoid looking "too harsh" or "too gung ho" as past complaints had stated.

So now the criminal knows they are returning and when they do return he is waiting with a high power rifle and killed 3 heros that day. If they would simply have acted quickly and surely at first it could have been avoided. The Officers were all friends of mine and I knew them well. They were all good officers however after complaints from criminals of aggressive patrol tactics they were simly going the extra mile to satisfy any critics who may say "hey you had no cause to arrest him anyway"

And yes you guessed it even after they were killed there were still those who spoke bad of the police. Many said "why were they picking on that poor guy anyway"....how about he had a warrant for his arrest and did not show up to the jail when asked nicely so someone had to go get him.

Bones you actually sound like a smart man however again you really just do not understand the reality of the day to day lives of officers. Crime is a sad reality and yes at times force is also a reality. Do you really want to live in a world where everyone is afraid to protect you...or a world where any force towards a criminal is considered excessive? I ask what is your solution towards a violent situation?

The tackle is often used yet again not really a trained tactic. What many do not understand is that once you tackle someone then what do you do? Of course they do not just simply stop resisting because they are tackled but now they start swinging fists or trying to get your weapon. Well now you have to resort to strikes to subdue them and we have all seen the tapes of officers striking people after they are tackled....it looks very bad on tape but again when a tackled suspect is resisting you have to subdue them quickly and harshly.

To any critics I would ask you to tackle a drug addict who has not had their fix for a few days..or tackle that desperate criminal who just stole some ladies purse...or tackle that criminal who just fired shots at a patrol car and see if they just give up because you asked nicely. As soon as they smack you right in the nose you would probably be swinging fists also so try not to judge until you have actually been involved in a situation such as that.

We are going to tasers and other tactics to avoid those tackles and swinging fists that look so bad on TV....and still many protest that it is too violent and excessive. It is actually a good thing and the Taser will continue and has even been improved. The range now is currently 21 feet and is improving. They now have a shotgun shell taser that has a much greater range and is just as harmless as the taser. I can only imagine the first time that is shown on tv what people will say.