Manual transmission Fan Club and BS thread (All Generations Welcome)

Thanks for the info, I'll check out the TRAC thread. I'm not rock crawling which is the only time I could see using a rear locker.

 

if a Positraction diff ever shows for the 8.75 then you can buy my e locker for cheap. but don't hold your breath on the posi showing up part.

 

I guess this is a perfect truck you wanted?




Looking forward using the e-locker this summer!

 

Hello all of my Manual Transmission Brethren!

I'm looking for some advice/thoughts/clarification/etc on a very expensive issue that I'm currently facing, which centers around, yep, you guessed it......my M/T.

Background info:

I bought my truck as a new model in May of 2014. She's a TRD sport, DCSB with a 6sp M/T. About 18 months ago, my father-in-law(who owns/operates a shop in downtown Philly)installed new Bilstein 6112's up front, set at 2'', Bilstein 5160s in the rear, Headstrong's 3 leaf AAL, and some new Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs 265/70/17(and SCS wheels).

Things were perfectly perfect. The truck felt way better. The steering wasn't as tight since I didn't upgrade the UCAs, but at 2'', it wasn't bad whatsoever. Life was good.

I live in the city, and parking is all on-street, so I parallel park my truck constantly. A few months ago I started to notice that, when turning my wheel at full lock and then reversing, there would be this faint smell. Something like burnt rubber, but distinctly different. It would be gone almost immediately, though. Fast forward to this past monday. I'm parking my truck in Home Depot's parking lot, and when i back up to adjust it a bit(spot was tight)I noticed that smell again, but this time it was bad. It was late, and the store was closing, so I didn't give it the time it needed. When I got home that night, no problems at all....until yesterday morning. I was getting back from the gym before work(I was working from home that day), and I had to parallel park the Taco, which wasn't unusual. This time the smell was so heinous, that it filled the interior cabin and then lingered for awhile. I called the in-law, who's about 5+ hours away. He's probably the most reasonable man i've ever met, so he admitted that he could only speculate what may be the problem, but that I should play it safe and take it into the Dealer.

This morning I get in the truck, and on my way there(about a 20 minute drive)I immediately notice a loss in power and torque pretty much gone. Truck does not seem to want to get into gear. I explain things to the service department. they give it a quick look and a spin, and tell me it's the clutch. They'll have to drop the transmission and give it a thorough assessment and get back to me. I just got off the phone a little while ago with the kid who was helping me today. He explains to me that the clutch is totally fried. I'm going to need the flywheel sent out to be rebuilt, a new throw-out bearing, new pressure plate, etc, etc. I'm completely flabbergasted by this news. I asked him how that's even possible. I suppose I don't blame him, but he was a little smart with me, saying it's none of his business how I drive, etc etc, and I had to stop him and explain how all I've ever driven were standards, never once burning a clutch, and never once having an issue with this truck either, until now.

I explained that if it's user error, so be it, but if it could potentially be caused by some other factor, well I want to know what the hell that factor is, and then take it out of the equation entirely, because I can't afford a new clutch every 40k miles(current mileage is around 38,100).

Question number 1: Can you guys think of anything else that would cause such significant wear to the clutch. The kid flat out said he's never seen a clutch burned so badly in his life. I mean, even if I live in the city and parallel park semi-regularly, in order to do that level of destruction in such a short span of time I'd have start each and every day with hot cup of Joe and 30 seconds worth of donuts in the nearby Target parking lot. Am I totally mistaken? Are our clutches truly that delicate? If so, wouldn't it have been more obvious that this was on the horizon, as opposed to the immediate catastrophic failure I'm facing? Could there be something about my setup that is jacking with the clutch? I just don't understand.

Question #2: I'm being quoted at around $1500 for standard and/or reasonable? It's obviously not making it back to Philly, and I know they aren't doing me any favors with that quote, but would I be better off taking it somewhere else?


Sorry for the absurdly long post, gentleman. I look to your expertise in order to better understand this shitty situation.

 

40k is a very short life for any clutch unless you really ride it from every stop (I knew someone that would do that and was not receptive to advice, so I held my tongue).

The only two explanations for me would be:

Driver caused:
If you only had the smell while engaging / disengaging, then you could have been slipping it too much? The only times that I have smelled mine (burnt carbon fiber) is trying to back up my driveway once and once coasting backward slowly and stopping it with clutch to pull ahead. IMHO, either the clutch gives off a smell pretty easy or the big ass engine fan moves it to my nose quickly?

This might not 100% be you're fault as 1st and reverse are pretty high ratios and engine torque is a bit lacking near idle. The slightly larger diameter tires would make the gearing situation bit worse. That said, the dealer isn't going to cut you slack there.

Clutch system:
The only thing here could be a blocked bleed port on the master. If blocked, it would cause slip. To badly burn a clutch, you would have felt / seen it slipping (tach vs speedo), esp in the higher gears under load.

Given how easy it is to get to the clutch (compared to a FWD car), that quote sounds high. Dealer labor rate and standard shop hours are affecting that big time.

 

I cringe any time I smell burnt clutch, it's such a depressing sensation (doesn't happen often but occasionally on a tough 4x4 trail it's hard not to).

 

I can't remember if our last turbo cars were CF or not, but they both had a higher reverse gear than 1st. One we bought new and the other used with 40k on it. Both were used with our little trailer. I smoked the clutches a few times on both trying to back them up hills. The first car was sold to our neighbors 16yr old and is still going with almost 200k on it. The other we traded at 140k. No clutch issues at all.

 

Nice, yeah I regularly hear of guys with 1st gens on this forum that still have the original clutches in them at 200k+ miles, that's crazy to me. A mechanic once told me that he usually sees clutches get replaced at around 100k, so that's a good sign for the clutches in these trucks (even though they might have quite a few quirks, they seem to last a long time). I replaced my previous one at 40k miles because the throwout bearing was chirping something awful, and now the new one is as well with less than 20k on it. Just going to live with it this time lol.

 

But wouldn't I have noticed this smell sooner? My driving habits never changed. If I'm driving in a manner that results in me totally frying my clutch to such an insane extent, well odds are that's going to orepres itself sooner. What I'm trying to say is I would use screwed her up in way less than 4 years.

 

Well... regardless of how it happened... that puppy be fried!

 

No doubt that. It looks like my tacoma was an asteroid heading towards Earth, and the clutch was the only thing that didn't burn up during the descent into the atmosphere.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I feel like a significant amount of thus damage was incurred on my drive from my place to the dealership. Is that possible?

Again, I'm not expecting to have any of this covered by anyone but myself, I just want to know that there isn't anything else at play here, because I couldn't stomach paying for this twice.

 

all i can say is if they simply replace the clutch and rebuild the flywheel and don't do more investigation then this will likely become a nasty round & round. re: the dealer... the elephant in the room is the abnormal wear. you know the truth about your driving and they are choosing to not believe it? I'd bring in the service manager and labor the point that you did not burn it up yourself. if he's a dead end then get your service paperwork and go home to call corporate.

 

I hope they're doing the clutch work under warranty...Toyota dealerships absolute rape people on clutch jobs, I know first hand. Wanted over $3k to do a stock clutch replacement on my 04. If you have to go out of pocket, find an independently owned transmission shop. Most will do a clutch for 1/3 that price or less.

 

Here's the thing, the kid flat out told me, "Unfortunately clutches aren't covered under warranty".

Did he lie straight to me face?

 

I am not tossing around any kind of blame. I really feel for your situation and was just giving reasons based on what you said. That frying could have been done on the way to the dealer. On the way, did you see / feel the revs surging away from the speedo?

Regarding your last post, I have heard of clutches sometimes covered under warranty. It is very rare though.

Given the $1,500 quote, I would take it elsewhere unless they give you a break since it is already apart. If done at the dealer, I would ask them to go with you on a long shake out drive when you pick it up, just to ensure everything is good to go.

 

The clutch is a wear item and not covered under warranty I believe. Found this regarding what is covered under the powertrain warranty for a manual transmission.

Case and all internally lubricated mechanical components, extension housing, mounts, clutch master cylinder, clutch release cylinder.

 

He didn't lie, clutches are a wear and tear item not usually directly covered under any kind of warranty (unless it's a warranty on a clutch repair). Just like tires, spark plugs, air filters, catalytic converters (another expensive one), etc.

If it did wear out prematurely though due to some other kind of issue not user-related, then that's where the warranty would come in. But If they're trying to say that it was just worn out due to driving habits or something along those lines, then you'll either have to plead your case with them or bite the bullet and get it replaced...in which case I would take it elsewhere because they charge huge $$$$ to do a clutch.

 

Sorry if I came across as defensive. I can see why everyone would think that it's operator error, especially based on the photographs. However, I've been driving standard transmission vehicles(both cars and SUVs/trucks), for years without any issues. Also while living in the city. If it truly is a matter of operator error, so be it, but I would be down-right shocked for that to be the cause.

That's EXACTLY what was happening on the drive to the dealership, it was so bad that I questioned at one point if I was actually going to make it there. I truly think that's where most of this had to have come from. You guys have my subjective reports of not abusing the clutch and knowing what i'm doing, and you have the objective photographs which basically suggest the complete opposite. Do you guys think its possible for this sort of damage to happen that quickly? It was 20-25 minutes of highway driving, and things were gettin' weird up in there, to say the least.

 

Yeah. 20min of clutch slip on the highway would definitely do that.