Sneaky Underwriting?Clutch FRIED at 38k miles-Dealership Deception?

Non-Exciting Update:

I'm being told that there's no way the clutch plate could have been installed facing the wrong way, as apparently the way they are designed, doing so would have prevented the plate from seating correctly, and likely would have failed in 300 miles or less--I have no clue if that is accurate or not, so for now I just have to assume that is accurate information.

I did get the guy to admit that the wear demonstrated in those pictures are way beyond what you would see on a clutch with 40k miles, even one that had the shit road out of it.

He reluctantly agreed to continue looking for any potential causes, although I made it clear that I don't want anything actually "done" to the truck at this time. They might say otherwise, but as far as I'm concerned, this should fall under the "diagnose' umbrella that we agreed on yesterday.

So, let's assume it's not the a matter of the clutch plate being incorrectly installed. What else do we have here?

The accumulator failing or hydraulics issues?

How could we prove/disprove something like that?

Any other ideas?

 

All that cookage happened in that last 20 minutes of driving with it slipping. Hard to say if the outcome would have been any different if it was towed at the 1st sign of slippage, but driving it 20 minutes with it slipping definitely finished it off.

 

Anyone w a Factory Manual that can post any diagnostic tree(s)?

 

There's no doubt about it.


The thing is, I noticed the horrible smell on a tuesday, called that day to set up an appointment for the following day(yesterday), and I didn't drive the thing until I left for said appointment. I didn't notice the revs being all out of whack until I was en route. It would have made zero sense for me to stop and get it towed, since it was more than passable and I was already heading in the place best suited to address its needs(or so I thought).

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

OP if you have so much experience with manual transmissions then why did you continue to drive knowing it was slipping? I could ask all sorts of questions and be blunt about your actions but you failed the IQ test on this one. Your experience and your understanding of clutch mechanics aren’t at the same level. While I agree your clutch should have lasted many times longer than it did the end result is a result of your actions. If the moment you noticed slipping you stopped and had a tow to the dealer or mechanic you could argue your case of a defect. You didn’t and instead you drove it until it was destroyed. Doesn’t matter if it was 5 minutes or 5 years. Driving while slipping did the damage.

To be quite honest I have to laugh at the OP. He claims to have so much stick experience that it simply couldn’t have been him. Would he have driven from home to the dealership with the clutch half pushed in? Not a chance he knows better. But he DID drive all the way to the dealership with the clutch slipping which is no different than if he had the clutch pedal pushed part way and was slipping. Slipping is slipping no matter what the cause whether it be pedal or otherwise.

********************

Not trying to be a dick here but not everyone is a mechanic. Not everyone has mechanical skills. There is a reason why apprenticeships are part theory and part practical experience (under the supervision of a journeyman/woman) and it takes years to graduate to a journeyman.

 

This right here.

You can slip a clutch at idle for quite a bit while maneuvering around slowly. But driving at load under higher revs will destroy a slipping clutch INSANELY quick.

OP, man up, buy a new clutch and call it a day.

 

$1500 to me is High, I was quoted $500 in labor at a reputable local shop.

 

While I’m still skeptical of $100 to drop the trans to “take a look,” I gotta agree here.

You say you’ve been driving manual trans for however long, but some things don’t exactly line up.

To be fair though, just because a clutch is slipping a little bit doesn’t mean it can’t/shouldn’t be driven.

The clutch in my 2000 Tacoma was bad when I bought it at 117k miles.
It would drive fine, until you gave it 3/4 throttle, then it would slip.
What did I do? I drove it gently for 6k miles until I had the time and proper weather to replace it.
It slipped on me about once a week, but it wasn’t serious.
“Oh my RPM are increasing rapidly, but my speedometer isn’t? Clutch is slipping, let me ease up on the gas”

I can’t blame OP for continuing to drive the truck because of a few whiffs of “weird smell”.
I don’t believe anyone would call a tow truck to send their vehicle to the dealer if it was still operational, just due to “a few whiffs”

 

^^^^^^^^^
I'm not seeing how I painted this in any sort of light other than as a person with limited knowledge trying to understand what's' happening and the best way to respond to it?

^^^^^^^this must be where I claimed about being the master of all that is manual shifting. Got it.

^^^^^^^^^^^Never said I was an experienced manual transmission technician/mechanic/spiritual healer

^^^^^^^^^Definitely sounds like something an expert would ask. I'm starting to see it now, yeah!

I think I made it pretty clear that I'm no expert at any of this stuff, but it's nice to know that others would help out by mentioning it as well.


I don't see anything indicating that I wouldn't pay to have these repairs done if that's what needed to be done. Also, I may have noted the fact that I would never expect my driving to be the reason this happened, but I acknowledged that it was possible.


I'm just a layperson looking to others with more experience in the matter for some advice. That's all.

 

Why that clutch wore like that so soon is anybody's guess but I have driven cars for many miles with slipping clutches just as stated above. I knew an guy who towed cars with a tow truck (Chevy 454/ 4 speed 4wd) with a slipping clutch just as stated above. He was about 75 at the time. His father was mechanic, his brother, son and grandson. He knew what he was doing. He did that for quite a while before he put in a center force clutch if I recall.

When a clutch disk blows as in fragments or the pressure plate mechanically breaks.... that is a different story. It wouldn't be too smart to drive that one except to get it off the road.

 

Yep. A slipping clutch isn't any catastrophic (usually). It's a wear item just like anything else. It can wear down more, or still be somewhat functional.

Again, can't really give OP shit for driving the truck to the dealer even if it was "billowing smoke" or whatever the details were.
The dealer techs drove the truck too when they took it for a test drive. I would have done the same thing, if for some reason I wanted to have a dealership investigate my clutch. I sure as hell ain't gonna sacrifice $200 in a tow bill in efforts to save a worn out clutch.
Either they are both wrong for driving the truck with a "known" slipping clutch, or they are both okay in that decision.

 

Also...

Bruh...I was supporting you earlier, but now you're changing your tone and becoming defensive and offensive at the same time.
It's beyond clear you came onto the forum and conveyed a tone and mood of "I'm an experienced M/T driver, NEVER had M/T issues before in my entire vehicle career! I've never driven anything except M/T!"

Please don't change your tone from "I know what I'm doing" to "I'm just a humble 'layperson' looking for advice from the elders".

 

I can see how I would come across as flip-flopping. You were right to have pointed that out. That sort of attitude isn't one i'd like to convey, in-person, or virtually.

It's a tough position to sell, though. Yes, I have plenty of the appropriate driving/life experience with these vehicles, but only average technical knowledge of this stuff, and almost zero experience dealing with a dealership in a situation like this.

To summarize: I'm confident in myself and that I did very little to have caused whatever the issue is that brought me to the untimely demise of my clutch, but from there on out, i'm pretty clueless, haha.


Everyone's feedback/advice is appreciated, though. Thanks dudes.

 

FWIW my supercharged 2013's clutch has been slipping off and on for 10k or so. It's intermittent and not consistent at all. Slips when hauling a side by side, didn't slip while towing a 4Runner. Dealership gave me a quote of $900 to fix. My reply was," if the stock one started slipping at 35k, why would I replace it with another OEM one?" I'm still saving for a URD stage 2.

 

Yeah man, I hear ya. Kudos to you for coming back and saying "I see how I could have been see as flip-flopping."

The situation sucks no matter what. I mean, it's a 4 year old truck with low mileage. Jeez. I would be mad as hell for a long time if I had to replace the clutch on that baby. I'm not an "expert" per se, but I would rate myself 8/10 on competence with driving M/T for about 8 years now, non-stop, over about 6 different vehicles (not including family/friends vehicles). M/T has always been my daily driver.
If it was Toyota's fault, good luck getting a favorable resolution.
If it was your fault...it's unfortunate, but I gotta say $1500 quote for a clutch job is much lower than I would expect from a dealer. (My dealer quoted me $218.50 to change my serpentine belt, and $1760 to change a timing cover gasket)

In all honesty though, for $1500 you could fly your father-in-law out to you, do the clutch job together, take him to a nice dinner, and fly him back, and still be a few hundred $$ ahead.
I would do the clutch myself, but that's because I can.

 

Clutch Diagnostics symptoms for a slipping clutch from the service manual says :

Clutch slips
1. Clutch pedal (Free play out of adjustment)
2. Clutch disc (Oily)
3. Clutch disc (Worn out)
4. Diaphragm spring (Damaged) *(These are the release fingers on the pressure plate)
5. Flywheel (Distorted)

* is my comments

OP unfortunately I doubt that there will be any evidence on the wear pattern due to driving for 20 minutes while slipping it was all burned up. If the clutch disk was installed backwards I doubt that the clutch would ever disengage when pressing the pedal due to the hub on the disk.

I would go with an upgrade clutch and call it a day.

 

Mine is 5 speed and had 50k on it when I bought it, no idea how it was driven before. It was certified preowned. It is sittin on about 180k now and sure it isn't fresh but still no slippage or TO bearing noise. Still will spin wheels at will and never any smell or smoke from the clutch. I am not all super nice with it but don't have bad habits like resting foot or doggin it in too high of a gear or anything like that. I will say that back in the day I had a corolla clutch blow up, parents blamed me and Toyota ended up replacing it as defective so....vindicated. Seems like a defective piece to look like that before 40k but problem is them ever timely accepting blame for having a shitty part..........like frames, leafs, spiral cables, 6 spd TO bearings, etc etc etc. $1500 is BS to replace a clutch tho - I see that as $300 in parts and $1200 of labor - nonsense. Other than needing a trans jack or 2nd person to help (which you would need to bleed clutch anyway) job is not too involved. The truck is already high enough to get trans out of the way when dropped. Good luck widdit..............

 

Quantify a little bit? Problem here is the information and assessment / troubleshooting is only as good as the “mechanic” doing the assessment. Based on the result I don’t think either it was a little bit as suggested or the person who was doing the assessment had enough experience or skills to be considered qualified to make the assessment.

When you describe the situation as no power or torque being transferred.

What part of this description says slipping a little bit? At this point it should have been parked until the tow truck arrived.

People wonder why mechanics don’t listen to you. Everyone with an internet connection is a mechanic theses days.

 

So do I let Toyota do the clutch upgrade, or do i say "thanks but no thanks", and take it to an independent?

Is the general consensus that I should install a URD Stage 2 clutch this time around?