How do you feel about everything going on with Illegal Immigration ?

OK, maybe its not a racist law, or not intended that way, but it is borderline fascist.

If they find an illegal, then deport it like any other country in the world, but criminalizing it?? make them do jail time because of it? that's where I mostly don't agree with the law, it is more a social condition than anything else, and with social condition I refer to the guy that CANT wait 10-20 years to get a work permit because his family is hungry and he is gonna do anything to supply for them, he doesn't care about the deadly desert, the coyotes that sometimes leave them in the middle of nowhere to their death, he just want to take his family out of the hole, poverty and ignorance, he just want to give them a shot at life.... is that a crime??

The key is sympathy, any of you guys, that drive a nice truck, have a house, a stable income, put yourself in the shoes of these people, what would you do in their position??? I bet you wouldn't let you family die in hunger.

The key to solve this problem is the supply and demand, end the demand, and there wont be supply, no work, no illegal alien.

And BTW, comments like 09AFT or Jon, that Illegals should be shot in sight, its what makes people question these kind of laws, certainly neither country would want people with that kind of ignorant mentality enforcing that kind of laws.

Sorry for the mess, but I got a lot of thoughts in my head.

 

Wouldn't it cost more tax payer dollars to put them in jail anyways?

 

You make a good point Tacomakid96. While you chose to draw the line at searching your home, vehicle, etc... I draw the line at asking me for anything MORE THAN A LEGAL ID.

For all the Constitutional thumpers on here I am surprised at how many are either ignorant to their rights or just so fearful of the illegal bogeyman that they would rather give up their rights than to stand up and do something that would really stop the illegals. This law is going to be overturned by the Feds anyway.

 

Gee Ordonez, are you sure you are on the right thread... You sound awfully adult and level headed about this. You actually identify the problems and offer real viable solutions with no extra false bravado or insults to the rest of us...

I salute you Sir.

 

Where do you live & work? I work with lazy people (Americans and non Americans). But atleast they're working and keep a job and aren't on welfare.

Yes, I will refer to some Americans as LAZY ASS because they mooch (whatever you want to call it) off the system and get money for nothing basically.

It burns my ass (laugh) when I see people in line at the grocery store with food stamps and buying packs of cigarettes. WTF??? They're Americans....

I guess I have a hard time *siding* with those people who chose not to work (welfare career) versus those immigrants who bust their ass for an honest pay. I'd say, let's EXPORT anyone - who's been on welfare for 20 years or longer....

 

Amen man. I heard there was supposed to be limits on how long you could be on welfare, thats only hearsay though.

I completely understand what you mean. I work at a grocery store, and not a day goes by where I dont see someone standing in the checkout line waiting to be rung up for their groceries. [Im a cashier/produce clerk] I ring up their groceries, givem the amount, and they pull food stamps out of their Louie Vaton/Coach purse. IM NOT FUCKING KIDDING. IT PISSES ME OFF SOOO MUCH. MY TAXES SUPPORT THESE FUCKERS AND THEIR COACH PURSES.

 

So is this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbSHwR8zAGk

 

Since we are so ignorant...Where exactly did you find that a drivers license is the only required identification?? Where is the over/under for what is appropriate legal ID written into law??

I'm not fearful of anything- I don't want people breaking the law. If there is an available tool to prevent them and/or seek them out when they do...I'm all for it.

Re that video-That guy is a moron. I don't care what the cops are doing that is illegal- Don't fight with them in the situation-It'll make you lose everytime. Take it to court after the fact and win lots of money and ensure that they lose their job...but being a pain in the ass like that is going to make more trouble for you every time.

 

So is this...REAL AMERICANS HAVING THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TRAMPLED BY THE AMERICAN GESTAPO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzSqbHFM1T4&feature=related

Meet Dudley Hiibel. He's a 59 year old cowboy who owns a small ranch outside of Winnemucca, Nevada. He lives a simple life, but he's his own man. You probably never would have heard of Dudley Hiibel if it weren't for his belief in the U.S. Constitution. Apparently He KNOWS his rights better than many on this post. And he stood up for them.

 

The Border Patrol isnt looking for illegals or even drugs. They are stopping US citizens on internal roads for one purpose only, conditioning us to voluntarily giving up our civil rights. Welcome to Police State USA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OydW39DZzc&feature=related

 

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." - 4th amendment of the US Constitution


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks&feature=related

Real Americans don't let their rights be trampled.

 

The officer was investigating an alleged assault, He asked 9 times for ID from that guy... for all he knew that guy could have been kidnapping the lady or been wanted for felony assault, he must ID him and verify no wants, warrants, criminal past. The guy did not comply so he can be held until the alleged assault is investigated... he did not just roll up on them, it was called in by a concern citizen... listen more closely. Last the alleged assault was confirm by the crazy daughter as she left the truck after what I'm sure was the deputy telling her multiple times to stay in the truck. Officer safety always first. I have no problem with the both of them being cuffed and stuffed.
P.S. I know my constitutional rights and I have a degree in CJ, and I have worked in federal law enforcement for 20 + years... don't spin video's to say what you want them to say.

 

I think we've been over the probable cause topic several times...and that quote doesn't say anything about drivers licenses being the only required form of ID...I'm still waiting for that part.

As far as the videos- Yes- There are bad people out there...but unless you live alone with no electricity you don't make, food you don't buy, and you never get sick, need any commercial goods or services- There are always people who can screw you.

 

If this is true, yes it is wrong.
But something tells me there is more to this story than what this guy told, you should hold judgment in till all of the facts are presented.
Do remember that news channels sometimes or a lot of the time they misconstrued the story, and they also hate Law Enforcement.

But if it's true, that he asked for his Birth Certificate, I'm not sure why he would need that. But if true, yes I don't support that, 100%.
No one should be forced to have to carry a Birth Certificate when driving, or a SSN card, that's ridiculous.

There could have been a thousand other reasons why the Officer chose to detain him, or it could have been because he didn't have a birth certificate. Which is wrong and if true the Officer should get in trouble.

I still believe in the law. So if some of my relatives from Denmark and Italy come over here Illegally. And if the Police have justification to do a lawful stop, detention, or arrest of my distant relatives. And they present the Officer with a fake I.D., or tell the Officer a fake SSN, etc, etc. Than I would hope the Officer would ask them of their legal Status. And they should then be deported, since they are here illegally, and broke the law.
Have a good weekend.

 

So Brunes isn't a DL All that is required?

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az-truck-driver-forced-show-birth-certifica

or how about this one? Why is this guy required to show anything without probable or reasonable suspicion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks&feature=related

 

Yes...To operate a car a DL is required.

But no where does it say that you can't be asked to produce other kinds of ID. It's not PROHIBITED to ask for a birth certificate...it's just not normally used. Being required to prove you are in a valid legal status is part of any investigation- If by police investigation which takes time or if you want it to be over- make it easy and show them what they ask for.
Flash the proper paper work and you are done. Or you can fight about it, end up detained while they ensure you are who you say you are.

Ref above where I said there are people who don't do their jobs right in every profession. Using the exception and trying to say it's the way every things happens is just not truthful.

 

Very well wrote.

 

Don't get me wrong Brunes, I agree with most of what you say...usually, but no where does it say that I am required to provide a birth certificate or US passport either. I know that LEO's have an impossible job to do as it is, and I support anything that can help make their jobs easier and safer and more efficient. But not at the expense of any of my rights.

While it might seem simple enough to provide extra ID and get on with it, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. Really, If the illegal alien has a phony DL he can surely provide a phony Passport or even easier...a phony Birth Certificate.

I don't think that this AZ law accomplishes anything TO STOP THE FLOW but does go a long way in setting the tone and getting people used to giving up more of their rights.

Building an impenetrable border a la Israel would do wonders for putting and end to this problem without eroding any more of our precious rights and Freedom..

NAMASTE

 

Just because asking for additional ID is NOT PROHIBITED...doesn't make it VALID EITHER.

As this video shows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks&feature=player_embedded

 

If you guys are so convinced that the US is becoming a totalitarian, fascist state, I challenge you to live in another actual totalitarian state. There are bad people everywhere, some people abuse power given to them, (God complex) but at the end of the day they are doing a job that is extremely hazardous. Better to be thourough, and verify than to not check and let a potentially bad situation go. I've no issue presenting my ID and declaring my citizenship. I fought for it and I am proud to be an American, dont fault the officers on the line for doing their jobs, regardless of how they feel. Petition the leaders for change.