Manual transmission Fan Club and BS thread (All Generations Welcome)

But you didn't win.... but still look me up and you can buy the beer.

 

i'll buy the bourbon

 

Even better.

 

That would be AWESOME man!! Would you be down to make a comparison video between my truck and yours with the OV tune?

 

Awesome. Y'all make sure to find something up there like Nürburgring for the video. Hahaha

 

For those of you who talk about rev hang, rev matching, heel toe shifting, etc.; I'd love to know what 4x4 pickup with a manual transmission performs better than this one? I've had several Toyota 4x4 pickups with standard transmissions, and still own 2 of them. In my opinion the 3rd gen is far and away the nicest both on and off road, but if there's a better one out there I want to go drive it.

 

When I first got my 3rd gen. The moment I drove it off the lot the first impression was" this thing shifts like butter". I had a 2007 and the shifting in the 2017 hands down the best. So smooth.

 

Literally anything without an electronic throttle.

The problem is not with the gear box. I also think the shifting is amazing and goes into every gear with minimal effort. The issue is with the tuning and throttle.

 

Me too dude. First truck I've owned with a manual where you couldn't tell when it's shifting by watching a passenger's head.

 

That's the whole problem in a nutshell. There just aren't any. In the 4x4 department, there is only the Wrangler, Frontier, and the odd Ram. Most MT folks coming into Tacos can only compare to cars or really old pickups.

That muddies the water given my experiences with car and motorcycles. Those put certain expectations in your head and makes adaptation fun.

 

The problem is not with the gear box. I also think the shifting is amazing and goes into every gear with minimal effort. The issue is with the tuning and throttle.

Of all of the modern "nanny" features on the truck, the throttle bugs me the least. Would love a proper limited slip/ locked up rear end with none of the brake/ throttle/ stability safety features engaged. I would call it a "Dukes of Hazzard Button." Hahaha.

Here's the other Toyota I currently own with a manual. I've got a fresh, tuned 22R in it and the transmission has recently had a small parts kit/ new clutch and all u-joints are new. I guess I must like rev hang, because there's no comparison between these 2 trucks aside from the name. If anyone drove both trucks and was presented with an option of transmission A or transmission B, NOBODY would choose Dirty Red.


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My thinking exactly. Maybe people don't feel like they're "roughing it" enough and believe that they would like a more organic driving experience. I like that too, but would NOT want it in my daily driver. I'm still a purist with motorcycles as well, and still ride an old BMW without all of the modern gadgetry. That said, electronic drive by wire throttle mapping, electronic ABS braking, slipper clutches, and all of the other new advancements have taken racing and overall rider safety to the next level. In Moto-GP and Superbike, there is no way you could be competitive without the tech.

It would be really funny if you could somehow retrofit a modern Tacoma with a mechanical throttle/ clutch linkage. I think most people would have serious buyers remorse once they installed it and remembered (or found out for the first time) how a 4x4 pickup feels without these technology advances.

 

if you want to do that i will certainly help. you are invited to drive my truck and check it out. but only because race car..

 

totally agree with this. the hardware is a small challenge to adapt to as a driver, but at least you can do that once the software allows your inputs to show as you intend.

 

Fair enough, but the software is not there just to make the truck suck. Every line of code is there for a reason, and is likely to improve drivability for the masses in most real world situations. As the tuners have discovered, the enhancements all come with trade offs.

I'm not suggesting that there's not a specific tune that would better serve a desert racer, or ex-Ferrari owner who likes to heel-toe. After a few days of driving this truck, I learned to change my inputs to make the truck do what I wanted it to do within the constraints of the software rather than fight it. After 37K miles, it still puts a smile on my face every single day and a tune would never make my list of $700 things that this truck needs.

 

Ah shit. I get real troglodyte, real fast when talking motorcycles. That is the last place that I want gizmos, safety be damned (or at least Safety 3rd). For engines, I might feel a bit differently if they popped out direct injected motor. I like DI much more than pure electronic throttle bodies on cars / trucks. Almost as good as port EFI was.

I'm even a fan of non-ABS on motorcycles, if there is a choice.

I did have a minor technical arguement with a friend who let me take his Tuono V4 out for a spin. I really felt that it had a cable linkage, and it took a bit of work to convince me that it was ride by wire. The quick shifter was neat also and 3 "o" smoooth. But, it seemed to take away some pleasure.

 

if you can do that with the stock ecu tune then I'm impressed. but i wouldn't keep that... my sense of value is simple: i bought the hardware and i expect to be able to use it fully. I'm basically referring to how the factory tune mutes the motor in power output and throttle response... and i couldn't understand the non-linear throttle at all and couldn't justify fighting with it any longer when there's power & throttle response on the table for the taking. so I'm agreeing with you that my needs, as basic as they are, are probably not the mainstream way, because i know what i do & don't want.. i bought the stuff and expect to be able to use it w/o restrictions.

 

My grandpa has a 1995 ford F250 4 speed with overdrive. (does that count as a five speed?) But, that one is HEAVY. I remember barely letting go of the clutch and It feels like I was spinning those tires. But, older trucks are just as fun to drive. I think there's more work involved for sure.

 

Err, I guess you're not in the software world. There is a 100% chance the software is bloated with all sorts of priorities that have little to do with end-user satisfaction and drivability. And there is a 100% chance that the people writing the software didn't get the trade-offs perfectly right or even close.

Very few car companies prioritize quality in the software that drives their products, but rather check off the boxes on a list somebody created during the requirements process. If they did, you'd see much more of a feedback loop and periodic updates applied to your truck during service.

Hopefully we will see car manufacturers starting to understand software is the most important aspect of modern cars as more software-oriented companies enter the fray. Tesla, for example, has pushed innovation in this space with OTA update capabilities for their cars.

Until then the only way consumers can get updates to car systems that are finnicky or buggy is through aftermarket companies.

 

Most car companies right now have a "working as implemented" attitude, rather than a "working as intended" attitude, as evidenced when you bring your truck in with a problem and Toyota won't fix it because every other truck on their lot has the same problem.