6lug steel balancing - lug or hub centric?

What is the final day on this, I’ve read so many arguments for each case it’s hard to determine which is correct.

Looking at it, I’d say these are hub centric given that the wheel bore seems to be a tight fit on the hub. However, others argue that the acorn shaped lug nuts make this lug centric wheel. It does seem like people in he “lug centric” camp shout a little louder. Also read that there may be a TSB regarding using a lug centric balance.

I got new tires a year ago. I brought it back 4 times because it shook on the highway between 65-75. They even told me I had a bent wheel, which I bought a replacement and what do you know still shook after I had them swap it out. I gave up on that shop (a higher end local place) and forgot about balancing as I very rarely traveled on the highway. I have since moved and my driving changed from nearly all street to all highway and this shaking has me annoyed. The plan is to get a quote from a national chain (Town Fair likely) for a balance. I did confirm brake rotor runout with a dial indicator at around 0.001” per side to be sure a warped rotor was not my issue. I recently rotated tires front/back and the shaking lessened but persisted, so I believe my worst balanced wheel to now be in the back.

Can someone confirm whether I need a lug centric or hub centric balance? The Town Fair Tire website indicates they are equipped with a Hawkeye adapter for lug centric balancing, I’d just like to be able to mention that it needs a lug centric balance of that is the case.

2013
2.7/5sp/4x4
6lug steel wheels
~50k miles

 

Hub-centric. I too have been having a hell of a time getting tires balanced.. Including at the chain you mentioned.. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the reply.

I was hoping they would be lug centric as it could possibly at least explain why the shop couldn’t balance these right if they were using hub centric adapters.

I’m tempted to buy a static bubble balancer but I’m Leary as to how effective they are and it seems hard to find ones with cones large enough to accept the Tacoma hub bore size. I guess I’ll get the dial indicator out again and see if the wheels are bent or the tires out of round before I go spending more money. What a hassle!

 

FWIW I recently got some aluminum rims to replace my stock steelies on my 2015 AC 4x4,

The guys at Discount Tire said they always have trouble balancing the steel Toyota wheels...

Now he didn't say if it was just Tacoma steels or all Toyota steels but he mentioned it none the less.


To answer your question

Al rims "Hub-Centric"
Steel rims "Lug centric"

Al lug nuts have a front lug centric section for your spare tire being steel and all.

 

if your shaking at highway speeds check the alignment, those steel rims are hub centric the alloys are lug centric, also make sure the struts/shocks are in good condition

 

I wrote service for 18 years with Honda/Acura and BMW...

If you can drive through the wobble or vibration it is a balance issue... Now a wheel can be balanced and read zero on the balancer and then when you watch the wheel/tire combo spinning on the balancer it can have some run-out or some wobble in the tire itself.

A-Tire was damaged
B-Tire is cheap and came that way
C-Rim out of balance/round

Now I would recommend looking into a road force balancing,

When we had customers with BMWs or Honda Odysseys we required road force balancing or we WOULD NOT install their tires.

For some reason certain wheel/tire/vehicle combinations respond very very well to road force balancing.

Good luck tracking it down man, I hate having spent my hard earned dollars and not having things fixed right.

 

And that your lugs are properly torqued...

 

yes, I got my tires rotated at attire shop and told the dude the lugs are to be set at 83 ft/lbs., he said that they usually torque to 90 ft/pds. for every car/truck, no no not on mine

 

And the debate goes on.

 

Yeah, I mean when you see a wheel with a hub bored for the hub it's going on you think hub centric but I think both with the steel wheels. Because the lug nuts are different.

I can say for all the years I've been around balancing wheels for nicer automobiles we always use the "Hub Centric" adapter when on the balance machine. I can't remember ever seeing someone use a "lug centric" adapter.

The most important thing for the Hondas/Acuras was the hub centric because you had a driveshaft behind it all too.

 

What's the debate? The wheels are hubcentric, but not as hubcentric as say the old VW rims that would often still grab hold of the center hub rather tight even with the wheel lugs removed.

The Toyota remedy for this is the same as it has been since 1996. That is to use the Haweka adapter when balancing, preferably in combination and at the same time with the tire matching (road force) machine.

The adapter uses a precise hub centering cone to locate the wheel on one side and a set of 6 fingers on the other. The fingers better help keep the wheel's center on the cone from tilting sideways just a bit. I purchased the adapter and us it always when balancing. The idea of the adapter is that it mimics as near as possible the way the wheel sits on the balance machine as it does on the truck.

OP, I might suggest that you search out a place that has both the Haweka adapter and the newer Hunter (I think its called the Elite) tire matching (road force) machine and use both at the same time. The new Hunter machine has a large horizontal bar that sits above the machine and seems to make it more user friendly as the old machine required much more skill and inexperienced techs were known to "fake it". Aftermarket wheels can create additional problems as so many are not made to the same hub diameter as the Tacoma specs and its is necessary to use hub centering rings and they themselves can be a bit off unless they are very high quality.

 

I’m thinking that this guy is right!
Maybe I missed it but what do your lug nuts look like? Beveled on the end or a flange with straight section?

 

Well,

It's debatable for sure...

I just know the OPs pain... Having had steel wheels on my previous two RC 4x4 tacos and for a few years on my 2015 AC.

 

Good discussion - but my thread is proof that some say the steel wheels are hub centric and others lug centric. Just read through, I saw back to back posts contradicting each other.

For what it’s worth - I don’t believe it is an alignment issue, but that is my observation based opinion. The truck tracks straight at speed and the tires have no uneven wear with about 5000 miles on them. I rotated them about a month ago, I use a torque wrench and proper crisscross pattern - I did go with 100ft lbs. After the rotate (just front to back) the vibes persisted but changed to more of a seat of the pants thing instead of a wild steering wheel, though I can still now feel it in the steering wheel. As someone mentioned, I can in fact “drive through” it. It is at its worse 65-70. Below 60 I don’t notice it. If I take it up for 75-80, it lessens to a point where I notice it but a passenger would not.

I’ll mention - one wheel, which is now on the back, has the largest wheel weights I have ever seen. The front facing weight is 4” and on the inside lip of the wheel the weight appears to be at least 8”. I’m actually surprised they come in such a size. To me it looks like the tire should have been unseated and rotated. I have one wheel with no weights at all (up front) and the other 2 wheels have regular sized weights. I’m considering a bubble balancer just so I can see for myself if these are crazily out of balance. But that would be checking based on HUB centric balance. But seeing how the bore of the wheel is a precise fit to the hub - I still don’t quitr understand how it could not be gun centric, it can’t move from that center axis. I hear you all saying lug centric and mentioning the Haweka adapter that Toyota suggest - but I just don’t understand how that is the case. Can someone explain that in terms other than “because I/Toyota said so” ?

I feel like I’m paying the price for the tire shops incompetence. I need to find the time to check runout on the wheels and tires to eliminate that as a possibility. But really, seems like a balance issue. This thing didn’t shake at all with the worn out Dunlop’s.

Sorry for the long post.

 

Can they be both hub and lug? I know wheel spacers advertise that the spacers can be both hub and lug.

It does fit tight to the hub, AND the lug nuts are tapered which suggests to me that it is both.

 

Yah, that makes sense. But stating it is not hub centric simply doesn’t. The load is meant to be exerted on the hub, not put the wheel studs in shear. So unless there is some type of fit issue with the steel wheels to the cone on a dynamic balancer, it seems that a hubcentric balance should work.

I’m very curious on the balance of my wheels and will pickup an inexpensive bubble balancer to validate with my own eyes. Most bubble balancer only go up to a 4” cone which is a little too small for the Tacos 106mm wheel bore. Luckily a cheap hub centric ring solves that issue for the purpose of fitting and centering on the balancer.

 

This vid specifically mentions many Toyota SUVs/trucks are lug-centric.

https://youtu.be/ocWAZqNGhM4?t=2m18s

 

Can I ask what brand and size your tires are?

I have seen then balance on the machine, even road force and the tire has a "bounce" or out of round to it.

That will for sure cause a felt speed vibration.

 

If you were my customer and said this to me I would really really get my technicians to check the wheel/tire combos for out of round tires...

Maybe a belt broke/slipped within the tire.

On the front the steering transfers the vibration through the wheel and you have it there, on the rear the suspension is a lot more solid and can't move as much so the vibration is sent into the chassis, and you feel it under you. The wheels in question are your two rear ones.

None have fix-a-flat in them right?

 

Lug or hub doesn't matter in the balance process, if it's done right, as @Taco'09 details in post 11.

The only time it matters is in the actual mounting on the vehicle.

I ran a wheel with a bore larger than the hub on my SCCA ride for years. But I mounted them with the right lugnuts, making it essentially a lug centric 'conversion'. The key in doing that is proper tapered nuts, careful positioning and proper rotational torquing.

Never had a problem. At any speed, legal or otherwise. Even on budget race rubber.

So, barring damaged goods of wheels/tires, the tech balancing and the install process are key.

Hot tip. You can use the most expensive Road Force machine, but if the tech using it is not well trained, or if lazy, it won't give magical results. Road Force can take more work to solve the issue.