Help! Stuck Lower Ball Joint/CV removal questions as well

Ok. Thank you. That's the one I purchased yesterday.

 

Rent one for $10, or BUY one for $14...

hmmmmmm......

I usd this guy's method, mostly, for removal. But putting the upper BJs back in place I'd just rent the C-clap style BJ tool... His method of using a flat prybar and the modified pitman arm puller SUCKED.

http://www.bajataco.com/tech/control_arms_01.html

 

THEN DON'T CHARGE $100/HOUR! My opinion is for that rate a mechanic is being paid to DO IT RIGHT not do it quick. For $100/hour in labor the shop should be able to afford a wide range of tools to do the job right without damaging anything and that don't break.

* "Do it right" means how it says to do it in the Toyota Repair Manual.

How about this, give the customer a choice.
$100 to do the job using a hammer or $120 using a puller?
Add $40 extra if you want the nuts and bolts tightened using a torque wrench, otherwise the mechanic will just go by feel.

 

Haha, dealers don't even follow every procedure in OEM manuals. And I suppose you want every single bolt & nut torqued to "spec" also? Sorry but in the real world, that doesn't happen. Using a hammer won't cause any damage if you know what you are doing and not using it on stamped steel arms or aluminum.

 

this has turned into the story about the printing press repair guy who charged the newspaper owner $10,000 to fix the press. The newspaper owner complained that you charged me 10,000 dollars and all you did was hit it with a hammer! The repair guy replied, I knew where to hit it at.

 

Um, yeah?

"Probably tight enough" is good enough for the shadetree mechanic, but if I'm paying you $100 an hour, that shit should be spot on.

If I walk into a shop and all I see are hammers, screwdrivers, and adjustable wrenches, I walk the F out.

 

Haha, torque nazis.....

If you know of a shop that torques EVERY single nut & bolt, which I highly doubt, & doesn't charge more than $100 an hr, better get what you can done with them before they go out of business.

Recommended torque specs are listed in manuals cause they have to. Yes, certain fastners are critical where they do need to be torqued but I can gurantee there is no pro mechanic out there that takes the time to torque down everything.

 

Using a hammer should work just fine. The question is, where are you striking? The ball joint stud is tapered, so is the hole on the lower control arm. Look back at the pictures, you need to strike with a hammer the side of the lower control arm...between the ball joint and the nut. You’re going to have to hit it hard enough to disrupt the taper fit of the two components...which is pretty hard sometimes. Having the lower ball joint unbolted may in fact make this method more difficult. If it’s bolted to the bottom of the knuckle, it will aid in holding everything steady so you can get a solid hit.

 

Yes, and this is part of the reason why I stopped going to mechanics. If the fastener has a torque listed it should be torqued correctly whenever possible, unless it's impossible to fit a torque wrench in the area.

It seems like in all sorts of jobs the attitude is learn to do the job fast before do it right. Why not learn to do it right first, then learn to do it right and fast? There's no reason why a mechanic can't have several torque wrenches close by to use. It shouldn't take much longer to use them if they are in the habit of using them.

And I would think torquing things correctly will prevent customers from coming back with problems later if a nut or bolts comes loose, so the extra time spent might pay for itself.

Then there are things like this. A long, long time ago when I was a kid I took my car to an older pro mechanic friend to look at something. When he put the wheel back on he tightened the lug nuts with an impact wrench in clockwise order rather than a criss-cross pattern like every repair manual and owners manual says to do. Did he really save any time by not going in a criss-cross pattern??? I guess he was just worn out and jaded.

You forgot the Vise Grips!

 

Oh I just can’t help myself with the torque wrench discussion. Ask your tech with his high dollar torque wrench when the last time it was calibrated!?!?! I personally own a snap-on 1/2” drive torque wrench that currently tightens fasteners approximately 25 ft lbs more than the dial is set at. Food for thought.
I work with NC Department of Transportation. We had a rash of wheels coming off of dump trucks. The lug nuts are torqued to 450ftlbs. Now we can only use a certified torque wrench that has been sent off and calibrated in the past 12 months. We also have just purchased a calibration device to check to see if it is out of spec. That’s how I know mine is off.
Experience, and knowledge of how tight 50 ftlbs should “feel” like is just as important

 

I was actually saying that if someone is charging 100/hr they better be torquing every bolt properly. That's the only way it'd be worth that much.

I managed a bike shop years ago, and no, I didn't torque every bolt because I had done most things enough times that I was my own torque wrench, so to speak. I don't expect a shop to torque *every* bolt. But if I put a torque wrench on it myself, it should be within spec, howeverthehell the shop manages that I don't really care. Otherwise, you're just a bunch of grease monkeys with some tools in a garage.

I just can't see how using this wrench (a torque wrench) vs. that wrench (not a torque wrench) to tighten something takes so much longer, though. It's literally a wrench but with numbers on it.

 

And that's a shop I wouldn't go to...

Exactly. I don't really care that much HOW you torque your bolts, but they need to be in spec however that happens.

 

Enjoy living in fantasy land.

If you check a bolt after you get home, how are you going to prove to the repair shop that it was incorrectly torqued?

What recourse besides never taking a car there again do you have available?

 

You guys are really opening a can of worms here. As a former dealership technician that knows plenty of other technicians I can tell you that they get paid on how fast they can get the job done and out the door. They only torque “important” fasteners for the most part. Not saying that when they are done, anything is out of spec. Dealer technicians do the same thing over and over and over lots of times. They can still do something right without the right tool...sometimes. Everyone is different. Lots of times people don’t take into consideration gasket compresson and the effects of a heat cycle. Example the older ford f series with the 302-351-or 460 engines were notorious for exhaust manifold gaskets leaking. That’s because you can torque them to spec, and forget about it. The only problem with that is after one heat cycle and the engine completely cools, you can recheck the torque on the bolts and turn them all another 1/4 turn before your torque wrench clicks. That particular vehicle won’t have anymore problems with exhaust manifold’s leaking, because they were properly torqued after a heat cycle and gasket compression.

 

I’ll stop now, sorry OP for getting so far off topic. If you’re replacing the joint and don’t give a crap about the boot, a pickle fork for an air hammer is by far the easiest way to separate any joint.

 

Lol this is entertaining. As someone who works in the fastener industry I can stress how important torque specs are, I’ve tested stuff to failure and the ranges that they fail in are sometimes very broad. Anything on your suspension or engine ABSOLUTELY needs to be torqued to spec, these values ensure that the fastener will perform as intended. Tightening it too “feel” can easily cause a fastener to fail early.

 

OP, you just melted my brain! Lol! Back to my first post about a calibrated torque wrench. I purchased a top of the line torque wrench, I’ve used it for years. Right now it is 25 ftlbs off... it needs to be sent off and calibrated. I’m going to send it off soon, but I’ve got other things going on at the moment. A lot of techs don’t even know that they need to be checked on a yearly basis. So you would feel better about a technician torquing every bolt with my torque wrench? There’s lots of variables in any situation when it comes to working on vehicles. That’s the point I’ve been trying to explain with all of my examples. Yes, I agree that fastener torque is important. With that said, there’s also a wrong way of doing most anything that slips people’s minds. Another example, you might find this one useful. Upper and lower control arm bushings...if you’ve just replaced them the truck should be sitting at normal ride hidth when you torque the control arm bolts. If you tighten them with the truck off the ground, as soon as you let the truck down, you very well could shorten the life of the bushing because of it twisting.
I’ve turned wrenches nearly all my life, been doing it for a living for over 20 years. I don’t care how much money you pay someone, but if you want every fastener tightened with a torque wrench, the fact is that you’re going to have to do it yourself. In the real world, it just doesn’t happen that way. Technicians are paid flat rate to get a job done. That’s the goal, make the money. They also know in the back of their head, that if they screw up, they will be doing it over again for free. I don’t care what the shop labor rate is, they just don’t do it, and that’s a fact. I’m a very peculiar person when it comes to my vehicles, that’s why I do everything myself, I don’t have enough money to pay someone to do something to my satisfaction, so I simply do it myself.

 

Dude! I looked at your pic and thought "WTF was I looking at when I checked my manual?" Then I saw the same figure below on your picture. The "Hub Nut" is very misleading on the spec sheet. Should say "Lug Nut". I would/could have made the same mistake too. I'm glad you looked harder.

 

I guess I quickly skimmed through and highlighted what I was gonna need, but yes hub nut is very misleading