HELP: manual transmission two-footing 3rd gen Tacoma

I've been taking my 2017 Tacoma TRD Sport DCSBMT offroad a bunch since I bought it in July 2017. I've gotten great at 4Lo in a stick, and I admit that a majority of the time, I can get away with simply feathering the gas or brake, because in these newer manual transmissions, 1st and 2nd gear tend to roll on their own without needing to give gas. The tricky part is when I get into a technical crawl and I need to be able to hold the brake to control my decent (or ascent sometimes), and when I'm stopped or nearly stopped I need to give it gas so the engine doesn't die. I've been trying to practice more and more lately on trails to get better at it, but I'm really hitting some hurdles when I do. I'm looking for anyone with a manual transmission that has gone through what I'm trying to learn, that has some solid, helpful advice. It may just be a matter of "..yeah it doesn't ever get easy and I still struggle with it sometimes..." or "Stalling out is just part of the process with a manual transmission, you have to keep babying it and even then expect to get frustrated often." which are both understandable, I just want to hear from manual transmission drivers with real world experience two-footing technical offroad spots. I keep hearing "You can do this" or "You should be able to do that" from people that have never done technical spots with a manual transmission. I want real-world experienced recommendations if at all possible.

Here's one video of me trying to work on my two-footing. Now go easy on me here, I deliberately told my friends that I wanted to work on my two-footing so I expected to stall it out multiple times and I honestly wasn't watching my line very well because I was focusing so hard on keeping the engine running while crawling slowly uphill etc. In this video I'm not touching the clutch at all. I'm using the clutchless start button to start it on the hill so I can lightly hold the brake to keep from rolling backwards and press the gas to start crawling. It seemed like it wouldn't start even if I gave it gas. It just kept inching forward with all the engine lights on then finally turned over, which annoyed me because it lurched and I couldn't prepare for it. There's no way to know when it would turn over.


Hit me with any help you guys and girls can offer.

 

E-brake to help start on an incline then clutch and heel-toe the gas and brake and let out the clutch?

 

Okay, but if I'm going to heel-toe the brake and gas, I don't need to use e-brake then right? I'll try that next time to get it started, since I've confirmed the clutchless start is useless on a hill apparently. Still looking for experienced advice on general two-footing smoothly.

 

That's *why* you use the e-brake, so you don't have to heel-tow it.

My solution is to just drive an auto, lol...

 

Yeah seems like that's everyone's solution sadly.

 

Meh...

I've had both, neither one is particularly "better" for off-roading. It's just different, and has more to do with what you're used to.

I swapped my 86 22Rte 4Runner to a 5 speed back in the day. And honestly, it made things worse off-road. Like you are finding out, there's a LOT of foot gymnastics involved. I can drive my truck with a broken foot (which I have done).

My tacoma was my daily driver for about a decade, and sitting in traffic with a manual is just dumb, but your left calf gets ripped, lol.

I would love to throw the trany from my '17 4Runner in my 04 tacoma. It's got the 6 speed shift-tech or whatever stupid name they gave it. Works really well as a "manual" without needing a clutch, but that's not going to happen.

 

Fair points. Yeah I've found that people that don't drive OffRoad seem to think sticks are better Offroad just because you can specifically control which gear the tranny is in, however newer automatics can do that as well. I actually love driving the stick in traffic...I hate only having gas and brake when someone cuts you off or similar. It's a great feeling using the clutch through turns and such. Also, if traffic is slow, I can actually usually just use the clutch and brake without needing to switch back and forth and back and forth from gas then brake then gas then brake ugh I hated that. With a stick you just use clutch and brake and don't need to switch your feet as often. Nonetheless, with all that said, I'm more into OffRoading these days and the stick makes that very annoying.

 

How long have you been driving a manual?

My 3rz is way different than the new 3.5s but I can be quick enough to only roll back a hair while taking off

 

This has always been the same argument from the automatic folks, and there is a disconnect that they don't understand.
It's not so much about being able to specifically select and hold the tranny in a particular gear, it is a matter of having complete control over that specific gear at any time.

What an automatic CANNOT do off road in the technical areas, is give you the direct connection from the tire to the pedal. You lose this connection in the torque converter.
However with your manual, you will feel a rock or small ledge at the tire and know when and how to feather or quickly pop the clutch and get back off of it to get the tire to go over the obstacle without spinning. Your option with a automatic is to give it gas, or don't give it gas. There is no other control feature between the gas pedal and the tire.

You just need to practice and understand what the tires are telling your left foot with your truck. Once you get the language down and become one with your truck, you will find that negotiating obstacles will be a breeze.

Don't get me wrong, automatics can be successful off road, but it requires more HP and TQ to accomplish overcoming many of obstacles that the proper use of the clutch can handle easily, let alone on a much lower powered rig. Although a person could effectively learn what their automatic is telling them on the trail, it will be mostly the automatic saying "we need more throttle captain", or "spin the tires and get a run at it, boss".

Most trails or obstacles should be handled with less grunt and more finesse to reduce trail damage.

 

Drove them most of my life, but not much technical OffRoading until this truck. Its not about only rolling back a hair before taking off, it's about not using the clutch so you can two foot to crawl more accurately.

 

I disagree with some of that. In an automatic, two footing is super easy. And therefore you're able to feel exactly what your tires are on, and slowly inch up or down the obstacle under your tire. In a stick, you feel the rock, but when you try to two foot to inch up or down it, your engine tries to die. An automatic doesn't do that which, IMO, seems to make it a better option, as you're able to focus more on your line/angle rather than focusing on the engine not dying as well. This is all considering the belief that in a stick on a technical spot, youryo not really supposed to use your clutch as it will get burnt out with all the feathering you'll need to do.

 

If I get what you're trying to say, sounds like you need a crawlbox or a regear

 

Well that would be awesome and if you could convince my gf I need one I'll owe you one for sure. But this thread was intended to specifically hear from manual transmission drivers hitting technical spots and tips that helped them get better and not stall out a hundred times without burning their clutch out etc.

 

Two footing an auto is not at all the same as using the clutch where you can mechanically feel everything your tire touches with the clutch pedal.
The torque converter in the automatic will always be the buffer between the tire and you. Two footing (brake/gas) just gives the illusion of control where as the clutch you have a direct connect/disconnect/feather as needed by you, at any given point. The torque converter will aways be in charge regardless of what the driver wants the wheel to do. You cannot make the torque converter lock up/drop out/feather on command.

So, with that....
Don't be afraid to use your clutch when you are wheeling, feather it, slip it, pop it, lock it, etc. It's a tool, embrace it, and don't try to drive your manual like an automatic.

Note: You will not burn out the clutch with all that low speed, very quick use of the clutch known as feathering. This is another myth spread by users of automatics. The clutch won't get hot and burn by just slipping it or feathering for these really short durations, as there is plenty of time between uses to keep the heat down. Clutch material closely resembles brake shoe/pad material. How many years or miles of use do you get from your brakes? Brakes endure much much more extremes on a daily basis than a clutch will in the same time due to loads and friction duration. Yes, you can kill a clutch if you use it improperly, but that can be eliminated with experience.

Now, there are off road exceptions that even I will give kudos to automatics and that is in sticky mud, or deep soft sand. If you don't have enough HP, traction, or speed then a manual runs the risk of overheating the clutch pretty quickly. Depending on how hard the user is on the clutch in these situations, clutch life can be reduced to ziltch real quick. Obviously there are workarounds for these situations, but that is completely up to the user and the situation at hand.

 

This is very, very helpful information, thank you. I've been led to believe that you should basically avoid all clutch use when crawling in a stick... In other words "drive it like an automatic" like you mentioned I should avoid. This info gives me some ideas to try next time I'm out.
Any further info on why my clutchless start feature doesn't appear to work when it should?

 

I love wheeling my manual. Wouldn’t trade it for an auto but I certainly would install a crawl box if I could afford it.

Like said, don’t be afraid to feather the clutch. I’m constantly smelling my clutch when I’m in really tight, technical spots. I’ll usually just take a quick break after and let the clutch chill. No idea if it’s necessary but in my mind it helps.

This is also why I hate rock gardens because it’s constant clutch action. Also 4LO is your friend. I’m always in it off road unless it’s a fire road. This immensely helps.

 

Oh yeah, I'm in 4Lo all the time. This is helpful info, thanks. Just confirming with other stick drivers that whoring out the clutch a bit from time to time is expected, rather than being able to just two foot brake and gas without needing the clutch at all, that's very helpful. Without knowing that, it just seems like I'm doing something wrong. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty I'm not perfect at, but I'm trying to learn. This time of info helps reinforce me to keep trying.

 

Show me a person who thinks manuals are the "best" and I can show you a guy with an automatic who can out drive him, and visa versa.

It's not the type of transmission you have, it's the knucklehead behind the wheel.

 

If you don't want to use the clutch, get a 3x taco box from Marlin. Like 582:1 crawl ratio or something. Then you can get out and watch the truck drive itself at .00005 mph, but you've got like 12,000ft-lb of torque, too.

As @INSAYN said, you're not going to burn the clutch, that is unless you use the clutch to hold you in place on a hill, which is dumb.

And whatever technique you end up using, as long as you're getting through the obstacles without burning your clutch, you're not doing anything "wrong". Everyone has their own methods.

 

Yeah I've seen those TacoBoxes they're effing epic. Not really worth the hefty price tag in my opinion. But it would be awesome to have one haha