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Towing/pulling attachment options. Theory, input please

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by SportyTuRD, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. Jun 10, 2010 at 5:10 AM
    #1
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

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    A fellow engineer and I were discussing best possible locations for pulling using ropes/chains (no tounge weight) just pulling...This theory came up while he was dragging his long gravel driveway...could also be thought for getting stuck, moving heavey items, etc,...

    He is making a claim that an ideal location to attach a chain to "pull" would be to the rear axel given that no brake lines etc, were being pinched or in the way...Going by pure physics...

    Reason being by attaching to the axel will add no stress to suspension and the torque provided by the drive train will be directly applied to the pull. Not passing through suspension that is already compressed and through the frame eventually to the pull... Now your frame and body are still just "along for the ride"

    His final thought was if i could weld a tow hook to his Diff housing that would be perfect...
     
  2. Jun 10, 2010 at 5:50 AM
    #2
    wiscdave

    wiscdave Lets Do It!

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    LOL, no way pull from the diff housing...let us know how that works out if he does weld a hook on there.

    frame, ie hitch...ie attached to fram. i recommend pulling going forward not reversing due to how the gears are
     
  3. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:09 AM
    #3
    HMA

    HMA Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an engineer, but I took physics and statics in college. I believe your buddy is correct. Just look at the back of a tractor. While you are looking at the tractor, notice how thick the metal back there is. If you move the moment to the center of the diff and plan on pulling or snatching big stuff, you had better add a significant amount of reinforcement between the wheel bearings. Or buy one of these: http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/rendsample_trucks.aspx
     
  4. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:20 AM
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    EEtaco

    EEtaco Well-Known Member

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    Your friends theory sounds right, but I can only think it would work in situations where you have a fixed axle. Since the axle isn't fixed I'd be worried that axle wrap and the frictional forces causing the read end & drivetrain to "buck" horizontally instead of vertically where the allowed travel is would cause some problems.

    I'm no ME, but that's just my visualization of it all.
     
  5. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:25 AM
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    Brunes

    Brunes abides.

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    This is more or less what I was thinking. The driveline and axle housing are made to take a load thru the suspension- Not directly on them. The difference between the pumpkin and frame/hitch is pretty limited....IDK how the math would bear out but it seems like you wouldn't lose that much by towing how everone else does imo.
     
  6. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:44 AM
    #6
    Danosabre

    Danosabre Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an engineer, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express.. :D

    Your axle is only attached to the truck by the suspension. If you solid mount the axle then maybe?

    Have you ever seen a tractor pull contest? Does he think they are doing it wrong?
     
  7. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:52 AM
    #7
    swise

    swise TRIFECTA!!!

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    If you put a chain around the rear axle of a tractor and try to pull a heavy load, the tractor will flip over backwards. Not saying a truck would, though. Why just not put the hitch in the receiver and hook chain up to the ball?
     
  8. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:55 AM
    #8
    Caddmannq

    Caddmannq MotoNerd

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    One of the things that happens in any gearcase is deflection under load. In a well designed case the deflection will be very low, not causing a misalignment of the gears. Misalignment of the hypoid gears in a rear axle is very bad for them.

    Any stress applied to the axle housing at a point not of the original design could cause undue deflection and large misalignment between the gears.

    Now if the rear axle was properly trussed and reinforced against the attached load, then I would say that, dragging from the rear axle is the most direct load path & therefore strongest.

    That does not mean "best" though, as you would have less traction.

    Dragging from the hitch causes a weight transfer (largely due to suspension deflection and leverage of the chassis over the axle as a fulcrum) which increases ground load of the rear wheels and therefore increases traction.

    This is unlike a tractor, which has no suspension. On a tractor you must pull from the lowest possible point. If you pull from a point above the rear axle centerline, you do increase traction due to weight transfer but you also risk lifting the front wheels suddenly, whereas the truck would first "squat" on the suspension.
     
  9. Jun 10, 2010 at 7:00 AM
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    swise

    swise TRIFECTA!!!

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    that sounds good.

    what about using that little hook by the front skid plate and pulling backwards?
     
  10. Jun 10, 2010 at 7:01 AM
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    NetMonkey

    NetMonkey Well-Known Member

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    mythbusters did an episode on that and they totally disproved that.
     
  11. Jun 10, 2010 at 8:07 AM
    #11
    skytower

    skytower Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me, if it was a good idea to pull with an axle, they would have tow hooks on them instead of the frame.
    It would have to be designed that way in the first place. I think the frame is a better place to pull. It keeps the lines farther away from the wheels.

    My old 9n ford had a fixed drawbar on the rear axle, and a 3pt hitch, but the frame is part on the axle. No suspension.
     
  12. Jun 10, 2010 at 9:08 AM
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    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Our theory would say that the body/frame follow the axel, and with no load it is free to move.

    Tractor pulls also need a quick access points... As far as a farm tractor everything comes off the axel...even the seat.

    So aside from lack of easy accessability it in theory should be an ideal location...And since we are using ropes and chain you wont be loosing much traction there is no "tounge weight"
     
  13. Jun 10, 2010 at 9:32 AM
    #13
    dogbite

    dogbite Well-Known Member

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    There are videos all over youtube of the axel being yanked out when people pull from it or the diff. It is not engineered for those stresses.

    ONLY PULL from the FRAME.

    Hitch balls and pins are not rated for the stresses of pulling someone who is stuck. Those balls often become airborne missiles in such situations.
     
  14. Jun 10, 2010 at 9:35 AM
    #14
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

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    the you tube videos also show it being pulled sideways and everything else...wrappign chins around the end close to tires and what not.
     
  15. Jun 10, 2010 at 10:10 AM
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    borderbrat

    borderbrat Watching Chris4x4 o.O

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    The steel on your axel is thiner than the steel of the frame or hitch. The axel has not been designed to pull from. Don't over think it just use what has been provided. If you weld a hook to the axel, puling a heavy load with it could end up in serious damage.
     
  16. Jun 10, 2010 at 10:31 AM
    #16
    brutalguyracing

    brutalguyracing BIG DADDY

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    F.U> GUYZ
    broken mods
    Do not pull from your axle period.....
    Unless you want to replace it....and alot of other stuff......
    End of story
     
  17. Jun 10, 2010 at 10:42 AM
    #17
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Actually the axel is made from cast iron in most cases...It is going to be alot tougher.

    as far as using what has been provided that was the reason for the "THEORY" his reese hitch rusted off and he needed a place to hook up his drag to fix his drive way...We arn't talking about pulling 10,000 lbs here

    Why? you make a statement without back up...hence the point of the thread...



    Just a discussion...I am not going to do this but we were simpky theorizing..






    .
     
  18. Jun 10, 2010 at 11:45 AM
    #18
    SplitDecision

    SplitDecision Phones Ringin Dude

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    Pulling from the axle only On a heavy load would put too much stress on the suspension components and holders. I would think that it would also cause a loss of traction. Pulling from the hitch/frame cause down pressure and added traction. For pulling a drag type driveway leveling device I would think the lower you had it hooked the better that would work out. I use a piece of chain link fence with some cinder blocks and works great. I tow it with the tractor though.
     
  19. Jun 10, 2010 at 11:55 AM
    #19
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

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    That is the argument though...it wont put any stress on the suspension...Suspension is what attaches the axel to the frame...with no load on the frame you wouldn't have any stress...
     
  20. Jun 10, 2010 at 11:58 AM
    #20
    Loiman20

    Loiman20 Well-Known Member

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    After doing my aal I would never hook it to the rear Axel. It's only held on by the leafs and The u bolts. I think it would rip off your rear?
     

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