Is the Confederate flag a symbol of racism?

Ugh, sorry. Where I was originally going with my previous post well, I never got there. Sarcastically saying it isn't a racist symbol highlights the flaws with this whole argument about the confederate flag.

The swastika is NOT a racist symbol but our society has, and likely forever will, perceive it that way because one person who flew that (for the sake of simplicity in drawing together the analogy) FLAG and that person happened to be a tyrannical dictator who enjoyed hate and oppression.

Is it fair that he single handedly changed the world's perception of a symbol that many holy people have worn? Not at all. But it's happened. If one idiot uses the confederate flag as a means of instilling fear and promoting racism why should the flag be associated with those things, rather than that one fool being associated with utter confusion?

Because it's easier to think negatively and immediately judge someone as lesser than you because they're "ignorant and full of hate"?

Next time you see someone with a confederate flag sticker on their truck think of them like this: "That person has a lot of pride in who they are and where they come from, I'm happy for them"

Bet that'd be tough for you. Not only because it sounds borderline psychotherapist counselor-rehabesque but also because it's easier to say this: "That person is an ignorant racist, I'm glad I don't hate people and am a good person who is understanding and tolerable, I hope that person burns in hell for being racist, that no good racist. I bet they hate Obama too, I bet they go around judging him and his change. That person is stuck in that status quo. They need to read Who Moved My Cheese. God I hate racist, judgemental, ignorant racists"

Oh the irony, woe the truth.

 

Pls. do not aggravate a peaceful situation. For the record, he was urged to came back by some TW staff. Shit happens. Lets move forward.

 

X2 Im unemployed and there are State and Federal funds for so called retraining and with some of these monies you have to have Minority status in order to qaulify to get them that means if your a White male you get taxed for these monies but when its time to collect the door gets closed in your face,I applied to go to a heavy equipment/truck driving school and was to expect $4000 dollars tuition help from the retraining program and I pay the rest, and was told by the state that it was a minority only program there and if I was a minority the tuition would be paid in FULL! Whos getting oppressed now(the WhiteMan)

 

This whole line of argument makes very little sense in that it assumes there to be only two points of view on the Confederate Flag argument. The fact of the matter is that like so many things in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. As I've said in previous posts, its ignorant for someone to presume that anyone displaying the rebel flag is a racist. It's EQUALLY ignorant to presume that the rebel flag carries zero racist implication - intentional or not - and that anyone who disagrees with displaying it is some kind of crunchy granola eating tree hugger living in a commune who just "doesn't understand Southern pride."
The Confederate flag was adopted by a people in open rebellion against their government as the symbol of their new nation. This nation was founded on an ideology of racism that assumed as a physical, philosophical and moral truth that blacks were inferior to whites. Does that mean all southerners who proudly marched under the rebel banner were racists? Of course not. But one cannot deny the fact that the driving force behind the secession of southern states was slavery.
In today's world, it can't be denied that there are those who fly it as a symbol of pride, as well as those who fly it as a symbol of intolerance. I'm as disgusted with political correctness as the next guy, so fly whatever flag you want. But don't be so naive as to think it shouldn't offend.

 

i hate that people think that the rebel flag is a symbol of racism.

 

I don't presume it carries zero racist implication, however the only reason it does is because everyone is misinformed and sensitive rather than educated and understanding. Just because history books write how evil and awful the South was I believe that, in the Civil War, there was good cause on the part of the South. I'm happy the South lost, since something very good came out of it (civil rights) but...

The nation was founded on an ideology of states' rights, it just so happened the straw that broke the camel's back happened to be the government's threat of mandating that states had to end slavery. There were several other instances where the government, in the minds of the states, was overreaching its limits of power to the point of oppression (again, in their minds... I understand there is and was far worse oppression elsewhere, including within the states themselves) The war is oversimplified to being just about slavery, but it was more about states' rights. Had the South not gone to war the government may have been meddling in the private sector and forcing us to buy their product a long time ago.

People do fly it as a symbol of intolerance, but that doesn't mean the flag itself should be associated with intolerance. If I wear a Virgin Mary t-shirt and a cross around my neck with a peace sign tatooed on my arm and lead a regime of like-dressed cohorts into the middle of a town and massacre women and children are those suddenly symbols of intolerance? No it's a symbol worn by someone completely misled and confused. Of course I'm oversimplifying it, but people tend to do the same thing in regard to history and the origin of many symbols.

Politically correctness has led to us to discarding things so as not to offend, when really that is offensive in itself. I think we should favor CORRECTNESS over Politically Correctness. The first thing about Politically Correct you should note is that "Politic" is in it, and that can never be a good thing

 

The Duke boys would never put the Confederate flag on the General Lee if it was racist. They just wouldn't do it.

 

I don't think anyone can deny that the South was largely in favor of the evil institution of slavery and only the most revisionist of historian could ignore that simple fact. While I don't think its fair to categorize all southerners of the era as racists, I think that the prevailing attitude at the time, both in the South AND the North was racist and discriminatory. However, I find it laughable that some in this thread have made comments which insinuated that there were lots of slaves who were "like family" and happy working for their white masters and that all the history books which discuss the abuses of slaves are written by biased Yankees trying to make the south look bad. Do I think all slaves were beaten and treated poorly? No, of course not. However, the very concept of human bondage runs contrary to the ideas the American nation were founded on. Regardless of their treatment, they were captives of their masters made to work with no pay. Doesn't sound much like "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to me. I liken revisionist history like this to Iran's denial of the Holocaust. The facts are there.

The "State's Rights" argument is the single most repeated and ridiculous argument that can be made for the Southern Cause. You're right, it was about state's rights......to own slaves, and to expand the institution into newly acquired American territories. And when Northern states refused to abide by laws such as the Fugitive Slave Act (giving Southern states the right to apprehend their escaped "property" in the North), the South bemoaned the violation of their "States Rights". Southern politicians whined that the federal government was violating their state's rights by threatening to ban slavery universally, and then created a nation in which the individual states had no right to interfere with the federal protection of the same institution. William C. Davis said it best:

"To the old Union they had said that the Federal power had no authority to interfere with slavery issues in a state. To their new nation they would declare that the state had no power to interfere with a federal protection of slavery. Of all the many testimonials to the fact that slavery, and not states rights, really lay at the heart of their movement, this was the most eloquent of all."

I see the point you are trying to make, but the fundamental difference is that the cross and Virgin Mary are (in the Christian/Western world) universally recognized as religious symbols of peace and harmony. A few wack-jobs running out and committing crime while displaying these symbols is not going to change that fact. However, the Confederate Flag was THE symbol of a people rebelling against their parent nation to preserve an institution which subjugated an entire race of people based solely on their skin color. At the time it was created, the stars and bars represented rebellion in the name of slavery and no matter what, it will never shed that stigma. Just as a few wackos wearing crosses and killing isn't going to turn the cross into a symbol of hate, a few (or a few million) good, honest, hard working non-racist southerners flying the Confederate flag isn't going to erase its stigma.

I couldn't agree more.

Here's a test. Tell me who said the following two quotations, and what you think they mean:

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.[/SIZE][/FONT]"

Here's a hint - it wasn't a northern abolitionist.

 

thats not the first time i've heard about that exact situation. that shit pisses me off so bad

 

^^wow thats bullshit

 

There is so much wrong with, and intentionally ignored in, this statement I don't know where to begin.

More people should research How things were going in the north, what the Emancipation Proclamation actually says, and how newly free blacks were treated after the war in the north.

The War of Northern Aggression was not about race or slavery for either side, and the repercussions of the powers that Lincoln seized during the war, powers not granted to him by the Constitution, are still being felt and still ruining this country today.

 

Some of this debate has to do with where you're from and how you were raised. People raised in California are going to view things through their lens which will be different than those raised in the South, which will be different than those raised in the north.

Where I grew up it was pretty much standard that every pickup truck had a Confederate Battle Flag on the front bumper, or a sticker on the rear bumper, or the flag as a headliner in their truck, etc. I don't recall anyone ever thinking twice about it. When I moved to South Florida it was made very clear very early on that people here viewed things differently, and having the Battle Flag on your vehicle was a good way to wind up with sugar in your tank, an ice-pick in your tire, or some angry, ignorant, jackass waiting to yell at you when you came out of the store.

I personally have chosen to use a different symbol as it avoids the ignorant racist connotations of the Battle Flag but still conveys the message that I believe to be important.







This is another good one for those that know their history

 

Even the state of Georgia went the same route as I did

 

I prefer this one. But hey, maybe that's just me.

 

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The civil war ended in 1865 yet the civil rights act of 1964 wasn't passed till 1964. I guess the union was a little slow on that

 

That is what it comes down to for me. I dont care about a mans color. But I do care about how the federal government has bastardized the constitution to the point that our founders would rise up in rebellion against it.

Every time someone talks about Lincoln being the greatest president ever it turns my stomach.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

I prefer to fly the first national flag but unfortunately not many people recognize it.

Its kind of funny to me that what most believe to be "the" confederate flag is actually a battle flag or a navy flag depending on the dimensions.

 

This is probably the weakest argument I've seen anyone attempt to make in this thread, considering the necessity of the Civil Rights Act arose from state mandated racial segregation in the South. It should come as no surprise that 96% of Southern (representatives of former Confederate States) Congressmen voted against the House Version and 97% against the Senate version. Conversely, for Northern legislators, the percentages were 89 and 91 in favor of the Act.
Senator Richard Russell (D-GA) had this to say when the Act came up for debate on the Senate floor:
"We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states."
But hey, I'm sure he was just making an argument for State's Rights. He probably wasn't a fanatical racist at all.

 

Wow you were really slow and yet still failed to post what was asked for. And check your history, what you perceive it to stand for isn't what it is actually for. Since you don't post facts I won't waste my time either, thanks for your participation.