Run to the Hills! - Jason's Completely Stalled Colorado GTFO Build

This statement seems kind of contradictory to me. Not sure I'm understanding why you wouldn't just drive it if it is comfortable and reliable.

 

So if he destroys the rig he doesn't have to figure out how to get it home. And if you have a trailer, might as well use it.

 

Like said above so I dont have to worry about getting home if I have a huge failure i dont have the spare parts for and It's as comfortable as any rig meant for off roading. Have you ridden in a rig on atleast 35s with a small Toyota motor with mud terrians vs say my dodge with a 5.7 motor. Updated interior. Satellite radio. And allterrian tires? Easier to have a conversation, set the cruise control and let the tow rig do the work. Then wheel as hard as I want and not worry about getting home.

 

I keep going back and forth on putting money into this ifs, or just swap in a solid axle. It seems like for a few grand more the solid axle is the way to go. I feel @malburg114 did a good job at building a capable rig, but not over building it. But I've always enjoyed being the underdog on ifs. And a crawlbox is likely in the works for either direction.

 

I mean..yes. If you do a few things to the taco cab. Its not a bad place to be at all on the highway with 35s and a blower. Just needs sound deadener and seat swap IMO.

Probably better gas mileage too haha

 

The whole ifs and SAS debate again the way kits are built now a days. You can’t go wrong with either style depending how you use your rig. Two each thier own.

 

At a fraction of the cost all those creature comforts could be added to your rig. Sound deadener will help quite things. I know all about a small Toyota motor trying to move 5500lbs at 9000ft, it's slow! Still wouldn't trade it for being trailored though.

I understand breaking and still being able to get home with the trailer.

Maybe if I'm back out near Vegas sometime you can change my mind on how a SFA drives at 80 on the highway and hauls ass on the trails without dumping more money in it than an LT kit.

 

There is also Mass Loaded Vinyl for sound deadening. But the down fall is it’s heavy. I’m experimenting with it now. I’ll see if it is worth it. The reason why is because now that my rear seat it gone it’s loud as hell behind me.

 

I remembered you saying that.

While it’s certainly an investment, I feel like it’s a really good intermediate mod between MT and SFA. If I stay MT, then it only adds to the capability of the truck, and if I go SFA, I’ve already gotten gear reduction out of the way.

Yeah, we just don’t have the real estate in these trucks to make outboarded shocks work well, unless you’re talking about going LT with a Tundy axle and SUA.

For me, I’m trying not to reinvent the wheel either. I feel like Brett uses his truck the way I would like to use mine (and then some), and he’s been really happy with his inboarded and vertical shocks in the back. Last year on the Kokopelli, none of us could keep up with him on the fast stuff and the washboards!

This is a very good point, and one that I’ve thought about a lot.

It definitely isn’t a magic box that gets you out of every sticky situation, or a bandaid for bad driving. It’s a torque multiplier, and you will certainly blow shit up if you don’t respect that.

That picture is awesome!

Driving and preferring a manual was a big part of why I decided to forgo some other projects and pull the trigger on the crawl box. I know difficulty is somewhat relative, but my truck sees hard wheeling and crawling rarely. It’s mostly moderate stuff to get away from people when I go camping.

But when I do push my limits and try some harder stuff, I don’t want to beat the fuck out of the truck and break shit. With the manual, it helps alleviate the clutch work and the focus required for it when I really want to be focusing on line choice, wheel placement, and wheel speed (things I have a lot of room for improvement on).

I’m sure you’d have a kickass rig either way, Jake. But I’d say go for the crawl box while you’re on IFS and see if you even really want to take it to the next level and go SFA. Like you said, you’ll likely have one regardless.

If I ever get mine done, you’re more than welcome to take it for a test drive.

 

Crawl box was a way better mod dollar for dollar than my SAS. You are way easier on the truck, I ran some crazy trails with virtually no breakage, 1cv in 8yrs.

 

Nice. That’s what I like to hear.

 

I think you have to look at the full picture of Solid axle vs. Long travel and not talking in specific for this build but everyone in general. There are very few people on this site who use their truck to their full potential as mid travel and even fewer who actually have a fully built sas or lt rig that use theirs to its full potential.

Lt isn't just bolt on extended LCA's. A real lt is front and rear suspension probably with a wider rear axle and minimized bed cage for your uses with cycling everything and trimming material for the most flex and smoothest. And a sas isn't just slapping a front axle under it and running with it. Its a lot of cutting and reinforcing along with a lot of cycling suspension and trying different combinations for most flex and stability. Both come with a lot of work and money but i think at the end of the day your money is better spent on a crawl box and sas later down the road as parts wear out if your stuck on a manual. You'll spend close to the same initially whether it be sas or lt and have less maintenance expensenses down the road with a sas in my opinion. A properly built sas rig can run with tacoma lt guys no problem on the chop and fire roads and out perform them any day in the rocks and tight and technical.

Ive personally ridden in a few long travel tacoma (camburg kit up front, tundra sua rear with smoothies) and it rode no better than my leaf spring junk. For the best ride your going to spend a lot of time adjusting shocks and bump stops and leaf springs and tire pressure. Nothing improves a ride more than airing down.

A properly tuned mid travel truck will outperform a slapped together lt truck. And a properly tuned sas truck will out perform a lt and mt truck or vise versa.

 

I have everything besides the blower. Sound deadened the doors, floor and walls in the back. Scion seats lowered up front and ill still pick my dodge any day to drive 8-10 hours.

Towing i get roughly 10-13 mpg so no different than what my tacoma would get.

I have sound deadner in all corners of the truck and newer semi comfortable seats from a scion xd. Still a pig though and loud with an aftermarket exhaust and real mud terrain tires. A supercharger would help a little with the power and will come eventually.. rear axle first.

Ever in vegas let me know. Ill go beat on my thing just for the fun of it but its still probably equal cost to a decent lt setup.




In the end its different preferences and i know mine will never be a race truck but i enjoy being able to crawl then go bounce through some whoops and dunes .

 

The more I really stop and think about the whole SAS/LT debate, the more I come to the conclusion that a MT setup dialed in for my uses is the best option for me. A crawl box is just icing on the cake.


E.T.A. My ‘uses’ primarily being exploring, camping, and moderate to occasionally hard wheeling.

 

Im sorry but I'm calling BS here man. That is a dumb thing to spout even in a soap box moment. It makes a big change but does not make up for good tuned travel numbers.

This is much more correct but not 100%.

What you meant to say is that SHOCK TUNING for what you WANT out of the truck. Will merit the best kick ass results REGARDLESS of what the suspension style is or tire size.


Period.


Tuning is everything and you can't have everything unless you go ape shit with shocks. But once you do(like double/triple/even quad bypasses, hydros, coilover/dualrate) THEN the debate for SAS or LT or Mid travel becomes much different.

However..

Bingo.

Not saying I am one of the people that do. But am in full agreement.

That said, i've found the front LT with SOA setup mid travel sort of thing to work extremely well. It opens a whole new world of speed and comfort with twice the travel up front. Much like im sure you've experienced with your SAS setup. Though I'd guess not nearly in the same way.

But the sad fact is, while many have tried others rigs here and here. Living with it, and learning where and when you can push it and how it responds...totally different. THere's no way you'd drive a friends truck as hard as you'd drive your own...at least not for a bit. You have to live with it and learn how it's setup before you really know where to push it. So direct comparisons in this subject are super hard. Not a lot of people have had a properly tuned Mid travel rig..then LT rig...then SAS rig. Key word there..properly tuned.

Basically, the debate is...kind of pointless. Far as im concerned its a money debate.

How much do you want to spend? How much fab time do you want it to take?

THAT is a bigger decision to make more so than which system truly performs best.

Ultimately though, is a personal choice. What do you do with the truck? What do you want to do? Build to taste...tune to taste. Drive like hell

Can't argue with that I supposed. No matter what the cab is still small. I do get better mpg then that though..even in Frank on the highway. Though not much better...

Though idk why you'd want lower seats, I want taller ones. Not that theres much wiggle room for that ha.




Okay..im done. Good soap box to soap box moment man

 

The debate, while occasionally entertaining, really is pointless. It’s comparing apples to hand grenades. You have two different setups that are geared toward two very different use cases.

And while a SFA truck might do well enough in the high speed chop and fire roads, it will not perform nearly as well as an intelligently set up LT platform that is tuned for that sort of ride. Same goes for a badass LT truck crawling in difficult terrain. It will be better than stock certainly, but a well-thought out SFA rig will crawl the same terrain in a much safer and more controlled way. So comparing the two in areas where they aren’t really meant to perform well is pretty silly.

For me, neither really fits my uses. But an intelligently built MT setup that is a jack of all trades and master of none does. I realize that it won’t crawl like a swapped truck on links, tons and 40s. It certainly won’t huck or mob whoops and fast desert roads like a back-halved, linked LT truck with bypasses front and rear. But I’m cool with that.

And like you mentioned, budget and down time for fab work is a huge consideration. I personally don’t want to take the truck down for months, and I don’t have the space to do that anyway.

There’s no way I could go any higher with my seats. I’m over 6’2”, and my head is within and inch of the ceiling as it is.

It’s actually pretty funny to watch me try to get in my truck because I have to do this weird jump-duck-shimmy move to get over the side bolster without banging my head on the door sill. It’s super graceful.

There’s been a lot of good discussion in here, and I don’t mind soapbox moments. I usually learn something or at least I get entertained.

That being said, I really feel like we’re due for a Brett Rant, even though he’s probably just lurking and rolling his eyes as we beat these dead horses.

 

LT is the best bitches!

 

You know what’s better than LT and SFA?


Some OME shit that gets wheeled...a lot.


To everyone involved in this conversation. Monte, you’re build(s) are sick. Malburg, . Jason, sell me that crawler. I’ll give you $1k.

 

Sig worthy shit right there

 

Well said!

As for the crawler, it yours, but it’ll cost ya about $1500 for shipping!