Finally a fix from Toyota for Stumble condition (TSB 0062-18)

I am not trying to debate this, but do we have any technical information to support that? I’d be curious because, if so, this is going to be a never ending saga and I’m not letting anyone drive my truck!

 

No. I don’t but wish I did. The whole learning thing seems shrouded in some mystery, but the consensus seems to be that the learning is ongoing. But again, that is just TW truth. The real truth may be different.

 

Maybe if we unplugged the battery as some say and then it would start over but to me the never ending learning depending on driver would be almost nonsensical and would result in an incredibly confused and neurotic shifting pattern - oh, wait....... LOL. Seriously, my other cars that have had this, to include some high end ones, only do it for the first 500 or so miles, but I have found that is usually up to 2000 miles. I’d have to see some hard core tech data on this before I believe that this tranny will be “forever learning”. If so, that’s a bit of a bummer for me.

 

So I’m starting to read up on adaptive learning for trannies and the internet also seems to be full of a bunch of crap that is noncommittal as to how long it actually lasts. I wonder if manufacturers for some weird reasons keep this close to their vests? I don’t know but would really like to know something fairly official as it relates to our trucks.

 

There’s another way to look at it, in a more positive sense. The system isn’t left buggered by the last person who owned the truck, and the wear and tear of parts, and aging of other items may be accounted for over time by the learning to keep up performance. I dunno.

I have no idea what timeline the learning takes place over......whether it’s second by second, hourly, daily, continuous, monthly. Who knows?

Some have stated that putting the truck in S6 mode defeats the learning as long as you are in the mode. The Toyota manual states something to that effect. Truthfully, I can detect no difference in driving experience between S6 mode and ‘D’ for my truck.

 

Good points. The more I read the more it looks like the system will adapt to the driving habits - period. So, if you split time driving as a family it could result in a hot mess. I’m sure I could have misunderstood the GM guys because all I wanted was out of my Yukon at the time, but I am certain they told me the learning process only lasted for so long. Then again, I’m reading stuff to the contrary as we speak. And, to further confuse it, I’m also reading about people having to disconnect the battery for their vehicles to start all over. In the end, I honestly don’t know BUT I do know that mine seems to shift better if I don’t drive it quite so easy. I also know my stumble (different issue, I know) gets better when I feed it the good stuff as they say. My truck runs horrible off regular unleaded but like it should (to me at least) off premium. It would be nice to see some data from Toyota educating us on the adaptive learning process because there is a lot of misunderstandings with this topic - me included.

 

So I wonder if the “learning” from say, your wife driving the truck for a quick errand, would be undone in the first few minutes of you driving, or if the system never really learned her habits during the quick errand??

I can somewhat understand why this info isn’t readily available from Toyota. You can just image the complaints they’d get if they publicly stated what the specific parameter or performance goal of the leaning process was. Half of TW would be calling Toyota Corporate telling them their truck has a learning disability.

 

From what little but I have read some claim it can be undone and the car loses it when it’s turned off while others say it automatically picks your habits back up and others say otherwise. I think there are some unknowns here but I’d think if it’s high tech enough it may pick my habits back up and maybe adjusts to it but I just don’t know. I’m actually ok with mine now after just driving it a bit harder and then going back to better gas. I hate dropping the extra money on premium when I’m not supposed to have to use it, but I think these trucks need it. Most of of German cars required it so I’ll just suck it up and get premium. My gas experiment is officially over. Like @Lt. Dangle, my truck likes the good stuff.

 

The sales guy at my Toyota dealer said the learning period is over about a couple thousand miles, though, he seemed to not know other simple stuff so who knows where they get their info and/or if it’s accurate.

My guess if the learning is ongoing, it is likely aggregated. As in, the longer you drive it a specific way, the longer you would have to drive another way to really impact and change the way it drives. So in effect, your wife driving it periodically wouldn’t have much of an impact. However, if someone buys the truck from you, over a bit of time it would adjust to their style.

All this being said, post TSB updates, I still see random funkiness from time to time. The other night I went from a coast to flooring it to pass another car, and when I floored it, it was just dead. No reaction at all. I released the pedal and pressed again and it went, but that was a first and really f’ing strange and frustrating. I just don’t get it.

 

I'm not here for a debate either. I know very little about this stuff myself. I've been playing around today, too. Like, wide open throttle at every stop and go, just to see how the truck responds. And to see if it "learns" quickly (as if someone new was driving the truck). There were a few times where i didn't get the 2-3 or 3-4 lag. I don't know if that was a "learning" thing, or if it was simply because I was so heavy on the throttle.

That's what I was trying to figure out. My best guess is there's just not a middle ground. Drive like a grandma, no problems. Drive like a bat outta hell, no problems. Drive like me, not to fast and not too slow, shifting is wonky.

I, too, wish we could just get an explanation of what's actually going on with the learning stuff. The funny thing is I wouldn't have this desire for understanding if the truck just drove normally. Sure would be fun to get together and some of us could jump into each other's trucks. And drive like 5 different trucks in an afternoon to compare. Considering how my truck runs, it's almost hard for me to believe it when I read people here say "I don't have any problems, my truck runs fine". My truck, I get hard clunky shifts and dead pedal daily.

 

I understand completely, my friend. So many people say we are all “whining” when we just want our truck to run better - we all do. No one wants anything but that and we all have better things to do than worry about this but we also spent a lot of money and would like to get the issues worked out. Like I’ve said many, many times on here, I have owned about as many new cars as anyone for my age (middle aged guy - still in denial) and this drivetrain has the most issues of anything I’ve owned. Maybe I should say it has the most unusual characteristics of any I’ve owned. Any way you put it, the tranny is neurotic. I am well pleased that the truck gets good mileage and am hopeful that Toyota will work these bugs out, but we are in the 4th year model of this gen now.

 

Well said, I opened another case with Toyota, basically complaining about the same stuff as my last case. I will continue to open cases if it continues to drive funky. I seriously think if there is any chance they will budge at all, it will only happen if buyers consistently complain and make their presence known. I am sure to make use of the words unpredictable and dangerous, as that’s what driving the truck can feel like at times. That’d fly if my truck cost $1500 and I bought it on Craigslist, but for 40k, it’s not even remotely acceptable.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/transmission-adaptive-learning.507304/

 

I saw this, but I’m still not sure there is an absolute answer from a tech standpoint. I also saw the manual citation but it was from the Tundra. I’m just hoping, really hoping, that Toyota will continue to crank out the TSBs until we get a fix, a real fix. I mean, this is a 6 speed, not a 9 or 10. How hard can it be?

 

Word.

 

I've got about 6 hours into automatic transmission research today, so I'm gonna sign off for the day and go twitter for awhile. See you guys tomorrow

 

Order of difficulty:

Understanding women
Auto transmission
Splitting the atom
...
...

 

That pretty much sums it up!

 

The surge which is addressed by that TSB and the stumble are not the same. This is a fact. Not sure why this is difficult for you to understand.

 

The learnng aspect might be a better question for ovtune, or in the OVTune thread. 100% guarantee he knows the answer.