Why LEDs should not be run in Halogen reflectors

He's a Mopar guy so he is active in those forums.

 

Thats funny, he told me how much he hates forums because there are just so many people promoting such bad lighting advice, especially with LEDs.

 

He's quick to put in his input and help change minds for the better. He does what he can. You're like TW's resident Daniel Stern.

 

Thanks for the compliment. I've received that one a few times, but he knows more than I. I've shown him a few of my threads, one of the areas of criticism is the threads place too much lighting power into those that do not know how to properly use their lights. For example, massively bright fog lights actually hurt distance vision causing too much near field light which constricts your eyes preventing night time distance vision if you are driving with them on when not needed. Great if you use them when they are really needed in dense fog, not so much if you are driving around with them all the time using them as 'aux driving lights'. They are a tool for a specific purpose. I have it on my To-Do list to update the applicable threads with how to correctly use your lights so you are not doing yourself more harm than good.

 

Updated with example after example after example after example on why this is a bad practice.

If you think I am harsh on this feedback you should get the direct feedback of my colleagues in the professional lighting industry on these LED products.

 

Eliminating the glare part of the equation by using 3rd Gen projectors, how do LEDs compare? I've posted plenty about loss of focus with LEDs and figured a solid example would be helpful in illustrating the issue.

Recall halogen optics work by concentrating a beam into a hotspot to project distance. Lack of a hotspot or reduction of hotspot equates to lack of distance projection and a pattern shift of moving the light pattern toward the vehicle, which aside from greatly reducing distance projection also increases foreground light which constricts pupils to further reduce night distance vision. Hotspots and distance projection is increased by making light sources smaller and more precise to increase optical focus to project the light further. While you want more light, you want the more light projected further down road, not more light in a blob immediately in front of you.

Stock wattage H11 GE Megalight +130 performance halogen on the Left vs XD Pro high output LED right


While the LED actually has a higher lumen output rating, focus is completely lost. Hotspot is eliminated and distance projection is lost. The pattern has shifted from projecting distance to high foreground lighting, which as mentioned above is not a good thing.

You can see the halogen filament on center, with reflections off the rear of the projector concentrating the light into a focused hotspot. And recall smaller light sources create better focus for higher intensity.


Compared to the LED, there is no center focus at all. It is difficult to say if those even reflect off the back of the projector since they are side firing, but for focus you should have light in the very center of the housing, and it is absent. Affect on the beam is predictable.


So what does this mean for output? See earlier photo for pattern.

Using a professional grade LED compatible light meter:

XD Pro LED:



Stock wattage H11 GE +130 performance halogen:


Not even close. The stock wattage performance halogen is appearing to burn a hole through the door with the highly focused projected distance lighting while the LEDs are providing more of a generalized short range flood light, which is not what you want in a headlight. The headlights primary purpose is to project distance so you can safely see at speed.

GE adds the blue tint at the back of the bulb, so that the edges of the beam get the blue appearance that many are looking for without affecting the output by filtering the primary beam pattern with blue tint.

Somewhat difficult to tell in these photos but the halogen beam arcs down on either side of the hotspot, with the LEDs it arcs upward on either side of where the hot spot would be if there was one, because the light sources are moved off center. Not helpful to oncoming drivers.

GE Megalight +130 bulbs used in this test:
https://www.powerbulbs.com/us/product/ge-megalight-ultra-h11-twin

 

I plan to get these bulbs as an upgrade for the headlights. I understand they are for the low beams. Do you have a similar recommendation for upgrading the high beams? Or are the stock ones in the 3rd gen already good enough?

Thanks again!

 

Those GE +130 bulbs are hyper focused for best distance projection, I've tried a handful and would recommend those.

You can also use an H9 in the low beam with trimming the internal tab as shown here for more output, but even the higher power H9s which put out more lumens than the LEDs cannot match the hot spot intensity of the high efficiency focused GEs. H9s 743 lux vs GEs 984 lux. H9s are among the highest output headlight bulb, there is no higher efficiency version like there is for low beams. I would recommend leaving the high beams as stock H9s.

 

Again, thank you! I’m learning a good deal through your posts. I really appreciate it. Just placed the order for the GE H11 bulbs. Good thing, there is a 25% discount promotion going on. They will be shipped from UK. I tried to find an online US dealer selling these but no luck.

 

Powerbulbs has a great selection and even though they are out of the UK shipping time is reasonably quick, especially considering they don’t charge for shipping. They usually have some ongoing sale but 25% off is pretty good.

 

I just installed these Philips Ultinon 194 bulbs for the license plate. And they are extremely bright. Would a cop ever pull you over for lights too bright on the license plates?

 

Extremely unlikely. Is there a reason you want to hyper illuminate your license plate for others? The plates are reflective and the LEDs have lots of short wavelength blue light that scatters easily, especially off reflective surfaces, making your plate look nearly radioactive. I don’t really see the benefit.

 

Nope not interested in hyper illuminating the license plate. I just wanted led's in that location to better match the tail lights. But due to brightness, I think i'll go back to the OEM bulbs. I had no idea they'd be this bright.

 

Philips bulbs typically do a decent job of not being overly bright compared to others, trying to mimic stock levels. I suspect it is more color temperature issue and the reflectiveness of the plate paired with blue LED light.

 

You might be right about color temp. But man, they sure do seem bright. Interestingly, I can see much better in the back up cam with them installed. But I think that can be color temp related, as well.

 

Oops, Im totally guilty of this. A friend of mine offered to retrofit my headlights for 400 bucks. Doesn't seem like a bad deal. However, my lights are wrapped in a yellow tint (For snow, fog and rain visibility) seems to knock down some of the glare, I rarely get flashed. And if I do its because my trucks headlights is level with their eyes haha

 

You should show your friend this thread. Yellow helps knock down the harshness/intensity of the glare, with retrofits the glare shield takes care of most of it, though where the edges of the pattern curve down with halogens as designed, with LEDs they actually curve up, which isn't good. But regardless you still have the loss of distance projection issue with LEDs. Most automotive LEDs produce lots of blue light, meaning the yellow filters are going to have a pretty negative effect on output, while halogens produce very little blue light, meaning the yellow filters will have minimal effect on output. Halogens will perform better with the yellow filters.

 

Ordered mine last week and can't wait to get them! Been using OPT-7s for 2 years now ... not sure how I was able to see at night lol

Anyway, what bulbs would you recommend for stock fog light housing for 3rd gens?

 

Depends on if you have the H10 or TRD H11 factory fogs. The H11 TRD fogs are wide angle and cover a larger area for more coverage.

Halogen upgrades: (Keep in mind fogs are a tool that should be run when needed, they are not aux driving lights. Putting in this very powerful fog upgrade will cause a loss in night distance visibility due to dramatic increases in foreground light if they are used when not needed. While the pattern is maintained to prevent glare, the small fog reflectors will be exceptionally bright to other motorists.)
H11s: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-foglight-upgrade-h11-not-led-or-hid.435419/
H10s: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-h10-to-9011-hir-foglight-upgrade-better-than-led.528143/

I personally really like the TRD wide-angle, if you do not have a TRD truck you might look for OEM TRD take-offs that are sold cheaply on the forum as people put on plate bumpers or swap out to LED.

For the H11s a readily available yellow glare capped H9 is an easy upgrade. H9s do not require the harness listed in the H11 thread. Copy/paste from said thread.
Yellow bulbs: Optilux makes a glare caped yellow H9. H9 is an extremely high performance bulb, I have better faith in a stock wattage high performance bulb than a high wattage one, but I have not tried these myself.
Optilux 65w yellow H9

If you wanted LEDs: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/
For pattern comparison, the Rigid LEDs side projection is 45 degrees (all the LEDs seemed about the same) where as the TRD wide-angle fogs is 75 degrees.

 

Confused about the info on this topic. I’ve been trying to make sense of the several threads on this and have so far ruled out LED’s and HID’s.

Is concensus that the GE Megalight +130 bulbs are the best / easiest upgrade? I really don’t like the color temp of the light blue coated bulbs, which these appear to be. I much prefer the stock color temp but am looking for higher output and farther projection.