Roofing Debacle

This has absolutely nothing to do with Tacomas. But there are lots of smart people on here, and maybe some attorneys, who can offer some reasonable opinions about the following.

We had damage from hurricane Florence and signed a contract with a roofer for a full replacement. We hired them because they were the only ones willing to do a very detailed estimate for the ins co including chalk and photos. They got us the insurance payout so I felt like they deserved the job. Signed a contract with them which *did not require us to pay anything up front* but had a 24% cancellation fee. Language to the effect of "if the customer cancels for any reason".

The salesman who did the estimate is awesome. However their office sucks. They have literally never returned a phone call. They scheduled us for Fri 7 Dec (last Friday) and told us shingles would arrive on site the day before. At 3 the day before, no shingles, so I called and the receptionist said I was on a list of folks to call because Saturday was looking rainy and it was a 1.5 day job. So they said they would reschedule but didn't give a date. I thought it was shady as hell that the materials never showed up.

I called the salesman who promised the following (sunny) week the work would be done. Well, I bugged him and bugged the office, including via email, and days went by with no response. Awful customer service. So yesterday I went to another company and got set up for the work to be done this week. Today at lunch the other company called and said they were doing the work on Weds. By this point I'd had it with their communication. Texted the sales guy and told him I'd moved on because I couldn't get a hold of them for basically a week. Also, (edit) we are experiencing a leak every time it rains. The new roof needs to go on asap.

Long story short, the sales guy said I better stick with them or else they're charging me the cancellation fee, and if I didn't want to pay that he'd sue me. So my blood pressure obviously rose significantly. I continued to text him civilly and explained why I moved on, and he eventually said "I am no longer communicating with you".

I really don't want to have the threat of a lawsuit hanging over my head but I sure as hell don't trust these bastards now and don't want them working on my roof. In the grand scheme of things the cancellation fee is a piddly amount and would cost probably just as much as an attorney to recover if they sued me. But the fee is a LOT to me. Obviously I don't want to get as far as a lawsuit because even if I win I'm losing to an attorney and his fees.

Curious to get an opinion on this situation from those who might have some expertise or perhaps been through something similar. I'm going to call the roofer on Monday with the goal of having them let me out in writing. I could threaten a bad review, I could threaten to go to the state attorney general's consumer affairs office with a complaint, I could threaten a BBB complaint (they are a member), I could be a real pain in the ass. Or I could let them do the roof. Or I could tell them to go pound sand and hope they don't actually come after me. What do you all think?

 

Not an attorney, and haven't been in that exact situation before, but here goes:

What does the contract you signed say? Does it give you ANY cancellation rights?

Do you have any documented correspondence from when they said they would initially show up?

You did sign a contract, and with no money up front, they have to have something that protects them if they have purchased materials and then the customer cancels. Not defending them, they obviously don't run a great business. But you either have the customer cover materials or have a cancellation clause that protects you.

If there isn't a way out, here is how I would play it:

1. Go with the original company, apologize and explain to the new one (hopefully you have an out there).
2. Let them do the work -- the crew that installs it is not the sales guy, they just move from job to job and will likely do the same quality of work they always do regardless of your relationship with the sales guy.
3. When the work is finished, contact the BBB with your complaint and provide honest online reviews of your experience.

I personally hate dealing with contractors because most are pretty unreliable as far as timing and communication goes.

 

I agree with all your points. The contract doesn’t describe any consumer rights. I have to pay the fee for cancelling for any reason. I’m sure that’s not enforceable for various scenarios, but it’s also notable that no time frame is described in the contract which is ridiculous.

I have all the voice mails for the originals date and the reschedules.

Yup, pretty much going to try to work it out and let them do the work but if they continue to suck at some point I’m allowed to ditch them. I’m hoping the general manager will just let me go elsewhere.

 

Not sure if this will help but check with your states Attorney General..... this sounds like the same company that "worked" that same thing in Florida and our AG went after them hard...

We just had "Irma Reno's" completed and a few small finish flaws are popping up and our contractor is basically a "no-show".....but mine are interior ...nothing as large as a roof

PLEASE choose wisely..... and good luck....

 

I did call BBB and strangely enough they have an A+ rating. I called the state AG and they wouldn’t give me legal advice, only offered to mediate if I filed a complaint. But the sales guy told me over the phone earlier on that I’m one of many complaining about the scheduler’s lack of communication. So maybe the problem is just this one guy.

The more I think about this the more pissed off I get. The company totally ignores me and treats me like shit and then threatens to sue me when I want to go elsewhere? No, sir.

 

They might have larger(multi structure) clients that are taking priority. You are a one time every 20 years customer. When a local businessman calls and needs 5 roofs done and may need 10 more in the next few years he will get his job done even if it bumps you a month.

You can always ask to have them send 2 guys over to tarp the leak, or even tarp it yourself. Then the urgency is lessened.

As far as letting them do the the job, roofers are always a gamble. You dont know the crew till they show up on site and by then it is too late. When I am in a new area and need advice on a roofer I try to find a local small contractor and ask who they recommend. Lots of times generals will PM the job and the tear off will go to a different "company" then the general will resheath and fix any rotted rafters. then the roofers showup and felt/shingle. So the local contractor gets fawked if the roofers slackoff, so they will know who they trust to put a roof on.

 

Also do you have a high pitch or request special underlayment or shingles? Anything odd about your roof?

 

Non performance (on their part) is a breach of contract and gives you an out after a reasonable time. In other words they cancelled before you did via their actions, or lack thereof.

Go with the company that makes you feel good and don't worry about the other jerks. They're just posturing.

 

It does have a ‘high pitch’ that required an extra charge. No different though than at least 50% of the neighborhood. Shingle color was common, no unusual material requests.

 

Actually I found a legit out. Federal and state law requires a cancellation notice form to be provided with the contract such that it can be torn off, filled out and mailed in to cancel. The form also needs to include the address to send the cancellation to. My contract did not include the cancellation form. Best part is, I can prove it, the contract was sent via email. Roofing contracts can be cancelled within 3 days of receipt of the cancellation form. So my 3 days never started, I can cancel any time.

 

document, document, document. send that thing in registered so there is proof of that as well. I'd be worried if they tried and put a contractor's lean or something along those lines on the property.

 

I did some research on that too, a contractor cant put a lien on a home if they haven't done any work. If they try to, there are some automatic penalties for a fraudulent lien that come into effect.

 

Go with the new company. Let them sue you... it's a threat. I'm guessing the roof job is maybe $15,000 tops and that equates to approx $3750 out of your pocket. It's going to cost them that much to hire a lawyer.

If you get sued, represent yourself in court. Use the lack off a cancellation clause in the contract, as well as documented dates/times of your calls and lack of follow up. Case closed.

 

You're within a hundred bucks on the fee, that's pretty good! Exactly what an attorney told me -- they haven't spent any money or done any work, why would they bother to go all the expense of hiring a lawyer. I agree I could just represent myself since I have the email proof that no cancellation form was included in the contract. However...a man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client...

I think my best move is to get them to let me off the hook up front. I don't think they want to deal with the prospect of a lawsuit they can't win, or a 1-2-3 combo punch of a BBB complaint, a state AG consumer affairs complaint, and a licensing board complaint all at once.

 

I hope this helps someone else down the road, here is a link to the federal requirements for the 3-day cooling off period:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/part-429

 

Not an attorney, but from my experience in real estate:
1) Does the contract specify their obligations / agreements to do work by a certain date or in a commercially reasonable manner?
2) IF they fail a material provision of the contract, that would make the contract voidable - i.e. I think you'd have a good claim that the contract and therefore cancellation fee is no longer valid.
3) Also, there is a concept of implied good faith in contracts as well - but you'd have to show that they did not act in good faith - in theory if they failed the good faith standard, they could be liable to you for damages.
I suspect that most legitimate contractors are stretched thin and probably want to help get people back in their homes, but the reality of getting subs / crews to work on a schedule may be a challenge. Then again, there are no shortage of opportunists out there too.
Good luck

 

The contract doesn’t specify a date range and from my research that’s not a requirement anyway. I did read that NC law for roofing contracts requires a number of specific items and the contract didn’t comply with 3 of them. The easiest argument though is that they failed to provide the cancellation form...under US law that constitutes a fraudulent or deceptive practice. They were also supposed to include language about it right above the signature line which they did not. They’re toast.

 

Good luck. I live in a small county in Kalifornia and from my former job, met many contractors, so I'm fortunate to know many by name and any gossip about their skills. I had one crew build my garage on the weekends, side money for the young guys. All I did was paint and install the metal roofing.
Duane

 

Ok, contract law is fun.

For a contract to be binding, there has to be something exchanged. Which means that BOTH parties to the contract have to give up something of VALUE. It doesn't have to be much value, and it doesn't have to be equal value, but it has to have SOME kind of value.

In other words, you can promise to give your car to your neighbor for no cost, and it can even be in writing, but because the neighbor isn't giving up anything, there is no binding contract, and you are not legally bound to fulfill your promise. A one-sided "contract" is not binding.

In this case, the value you are giving up, is money, and the value THEY are giving up, is labor and materials.

So if they failed to provide you with the agreed upon value, in other words, if they DID NOT DO THE JOB, then THEY are in breach of the contract, and judgment will be in YOUR favor, even if the contract specifies that you pay them regardless of them actually doing the job.


So here is the neat thing about a roofing contract. It is VERY time sensitive, because the longer the building is exposed to the elements, the more damage is done by the elements. So all you need to do in order to have that contract deemed void is to demonstrate that you have given them ample opportunity to fulfill, and it sounds like you have a phone call and text messaging log that would do the job nicely.

Now, there is something extra sitting here in your favor... and it comes down to intention. Because THEY voided the contract due to non-fulfillment, they can be held liable for damages, even though the contract is void. That means that if there was water damage from between the time when they were supposed to do the job and when you had it actually fixed by a different company, the original company can be held responsible for those damages.

Don't be scared by their threat of legal action. If they try to give you a hard time, you take THEM to court and sue them for real and punitive damages, and legal costs.

 

Appreciate the response! My initial instinct was that I had the law on my side. In addition to what you said the contract didn’t come with the opt out paperwork it’s required to by state and federal law. However, the house repairs were a very stressful time and in the end, I decided to be pragmatic and stick with the company. I had put a materials deposit down with another company who was gracious enough to refund it.

The roof was installed, and interestingly enough we had to have the company come back out and fix some things afterwards.

Anyway the funny thing is they sent me a survey with the documentation of my final payment. It brought back the raw rage of being threatened by the salesman. At this point, I would like to do something because I am still so pissed. I’d like to file complaints with the state AG, the BBB, their licensing board, and post bad reviews wherever I can. However, they are the holder of my warranty and in that sense I should let things lie. But honestly, I want them to pay for the way I was treated. A dilemma, and I will probably do nothing in order to preserve my relationship with them in case more warranty repairs are ever required. Such is life.