SCS wheels hub centric insert? Balancing issue

had Mr Tire road balance my tires, SCS 8’s with 265 70 17 Falken AT3Ws. Pretty bumpy between 50 and 60.

The man asked if they were hub centric wheels and I said yes, then he asked why there isn’t a plastic insert in there, and without it they’re not hub centric. I checked the website and it says they are hub centric, but I know nothing of this plastic insert.

Anyone know anything about this?

 

They do not need an insert they are already machined to fit Toyota hubs.

 

If you are using conical lugs with the wheels, it's lug centric. Hub rings may or may not help with vibes.

Scs wheels don't have toyota hub size?

 

SCS wheels are hub centric. Tell him to re-balance the tires

 

Balancing large offroad tires is a chore.. Id suggest running them a bit, then rotate & rebalance.

 

He agreed they were hub centric, re-balanced them and I still feel issues between 50 and 60. When he re-balanced this time he said 2 wheels needed 3/4oz and 1 needed 1 oz. Both balances were done on their hunter road force balancer. I have the stock wheels/tires, when I swap them in it's a perfect ride.

I bought 5oz of beads for each tire, I'll try that and then start looking to exchange the tires I guess.

I'm not sure they're “large offroad tires”, they're 32", probably smaller than standard size on some bigger trucks. I'd expect problems with 37+, not 32. Who knows

 

sounds like shitty tires

Edit: Meaning the tire might be unable to be balanced

 

If the guy took the wheels off the vehicle himself, then he is an idiot and you should go elsewhere to get them balanced, because clearly he doesn’t know his ass from his elbow, unless he has a manual/check list to follow. If you took him the wheels, then valid question, but he should know it doesn’t take an insert to make them hub centric.

 

May be. He assured me they were balanced this time and said that his machine would tell him if the tire/wheel was too far out of round to balance.

I originally got the tires/wheels installed at pepboys, they had balance issues between 50 and 60. I didn't want to waste my time with them anymore and opted to pay for mr tire to do it because they are the only ones close to me that does road force balance. Same issue 50-60, rebalanced them and it's less of an issue now but still noticeable 50-60. He was pretty adamant at first that there should be an insert to make them hub centric.

 

I had -12mm hub centric Ultra wheels that were never right, same issue. Supposedly hub centric but didnt use shank lugs like stock rims. Bore was supposedly right and used conical lugs.

The Tires I put on them came off my stock sport wheels. Eventually got rid of the ultra wheels and went back to the Toyota wheel with the same tires That were on all three sets and the problem went away. Problems seem to be the rims themselves.

 

OK SCS wheels are not necessarily hub centric. I literally installed F5s this morning and while the website says they are hub centric, they are definitely lug centric and sitting on the lugs. My SR8s are ALSO lug centric.

If you are using ET lugs then its lug centric but that shouldnt matter on balance. You may have a warped wheel or shit tires

 

That’s weird my stealth 6s are hubcentric, the hub is almost perfectly machined for the Toyota hub size. My installer even commented on how he doesn’t see many aftermarket wheels that match the hub bore that well.

 

If it helps i have had the same problem with the same tires, same size and SCS sr8. Took them back for road force balance and they found one defective tire. After replacement it was better but still not nearly as smooth as the factory tires. 5000 miles later i think i am just getting used to it but not happy. I can't say i will go with the same tires next time.

 

My bet is that it’s the rim not perfectly centric with the rotation of the hub. Ultra told me that the -12mm probably acted like a fulcrum for my hubs. I asked why they even bothered making a Toyota specific wheel and the couldn’t answer that.

 

@SCSPerformance

 

I emailed SCS right before I posted here, here is his response. I honestly thought he wouldn’t answer being late Friday afternoon. SCS customer service has been great.

“Thank you for emailing in about your issue. From your description, I'm guessing these guys don't understand the meaning of hubcentric which I would be weary of. Your Toyota has a hub size of 106mm and our wheels have a centerbore size of 106.1mm. There no space for you to use or add those cheap plastic rings with that tight tolerance. They're probably used to dealing with wheels that have universal fitment that need plastic hub-rings to take up the slack. Our wheels act much like the factory OEM wheels.

98% of the time when it's hard to balance, it usually the tires even brand new ones straight from the factory. If a wheel is suspected of being bad, take the tires off and have them spin balance just the wheels. An out of round wheel will show itself right away. Get this action on video and we will warranty the wheel or wheels right away. However, I recommend you find another shop. One that offers road force balancing. Prior to rebalancing the wheels, have them check the wheels only like I mentioned so that you can eliminate the wheels being the culprit.”

I think it’s the tires, but that may just be wishful thinking. I can’t legitimately ask the tire store to remove tires and spin wheels all day with throwing a bunch of money at them. I didn’t buy the wheels or the tires from them.

 

No disrespect to SCS but they don't always know what they are talking about and it's THEIR own wheels. I had some email exchanges about the valve stems because I got the beadlock conversion and the standard valve will not work. They only offered a TR413 valve stem which means you cant even air the tires up with the bead, so they recommened the "stubby" ones, which are actually TR412 and AGAIN that doesnt resolve the issue so you literally can't inflate the tires with the beadlock. I had to do some research and find some 45 degree valve stems.

They are selling a product they no nothing about and technically doesn't even work without some modification. You cant even remove the vlave stem cap with the beadlock on, WTF

Point two, I can say for a fact on both sets of my SCS wheels that the tolerance is NOT 0.1mm. I can go out right now have about about 1/8" of tolerance or about 2-3mm...If a Toyota hub is 106mm then the SCS bore is about 108mm

I do agree though that it's likely the tires

 

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'm going to take it to Toyota today to have them balance them, they are the next closest place with a road force balancer. If that doesn't work I'm going to add 5oz of stupid beads to each tire. If that still doesn't work I'm going to have to ask @Discount Tire Direct if they will exchange the tires, I can't keep throwing time/money at these tires, I think I've made a very reasonable effort to resolve the issue without getting them involved. I'm just afraid that I'm going to get tires worse than the ones I already have.

 

I just went through this with 285/70/17's Repulsor MT by Rolling Big Power on SCS 8's. Two of the tires wouldn't balance and the shop told me I received two bad tires. I thought he was nuts until I had them exchanged and the two new ones balanced without a problem. He said he is seeing this in some of the larger offroad tires even though mine are only 32.7''. It may very well be just some bad tires and they need exchanged? It worked for me

 

I believe SCS just sources their wheels and does not manufacture them. I am also going guess that they are made in some far away 3rd world country. That isn't meant to disparage them, but I am not sure how they can talk so confidently about a product they essentially just resell. However, the percentage of defective wheels is quite small since there isn't a lot of room for error in the manufacturing process.

The Falken tires would be my guess as the source of the problem. They are not the highest quality product on the market and use old technology in their manufacturing process.

The process for determining the problem is pretty straight forward and there are some simple troubleshooting steps. These steps take time and not many people want to do the work to figure out the source of the fault. It pretty much starts with putting the wheel and tire on the balancer and taking a look at both the tire and the wheel how they spin. You can easily spot an out of round condition of both the tire and the wheel. If you see substantial movement, that is likely your problem and all the balancing in the world won't fix it.

If both roll smooth then you need to pay attention to the balancing process. With the large center hole on Toyota wheels (about 4") it imperative that they use the correct cone to mount the wheel on the machine. If they use a cone that looks like a large funnel, it is the wrong cone and you will never get a proper balance because the wheel won't center on the shaft.

Once balanced then you move to how it mounts on the truck. True hub centric wheels will center themselves on the hub just with pressure alone. The lug nuts then just hold the wheel tight against the hub. Should the wheels not be hub centric then you are relying on the lugs and this isn't a good option. Wheels don't necessarily center from lug nut torque and lug nuts can be torqued without the wheel being centered. This is part of the reason that all OE wheels are hub centric.

SCS references "cheap plastic rings". This concerns me about their knowledge. While the rings may be low in cost, I will give them that, they are an excellent way of creating a custom fit for universal wheels. Their job is just to center a wheel and can be made to specific tolerances. Of course they are not without fault, but they are a simple solution that works magic for the wheel manufactures that use them. Some wheel companies used to make metal ones.

There is one thing that screams lack of troubleshooting knowledge every time this subject comes up and is pure internet legend and that is the road force balancer. This is absolutely not a magic tool that can fix a problem. In reality, it provides nothing except a balance and that can be done on any properly calibrated balancer regardless of the brand. Please don't waste your time seeking out a shop that has this over priced machine.