3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Ordered mine at powerbulbs.com. Waiting on apair if h4s for my wife's Highlander.

 

I’ve been compared to a lot, but that has to be my favorite. Bob Ross was mesmerizing with his happy trees.

Did you order the +130s for the H4s? The 130s have a coating over the high beam which will reduce output whereas the harder to find +120s do not. For H4s, which are 1st/2nd gen headlights, check out this thread:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-headlight-upgrade-h4-not-led-or-hid.398066/

 

Yeah. We rarely use the HB. My wife just drives in town. I liked the GE 130 on my Tacoma that's why I bought a pair for her 09 Highlander. Thanks to your post about the GE 130's.

 

subed

 

Thanks for sharing. Lots of good info.

 

I'll be watching and I ordered those lights in the link. Thanks!

 

Did a bit of data crunching today, the results were quiet interesting and helped paint a clearer picture with improved data plotting. I’ll publish them to the original post tomorrow.

 

crash is the man, his testing and willingness to publish result plus deal with the forum BS is unparalleled!

 

crash.....great......are you gonna post here?

 

Yes. This morning I realized a flaw by reusing a data point though, which skewed some results, so I need to take a new measurement before posting the results. So it will likely be tomorrow.

 

no problema......

 

So I bought the lunex h9 gold plasma. Should I be concerned about the extra 10 watts? Reading other comments swearing no heat issues but some has. Did my impulse buy end up being a paper weight? LoL

 

The issue with the data in my original post is lack of data presenting the performance delta over distance. Had I taken measurements 3' from a wall like many of the LED photos on TW, the LEDs would likely look much better because at close range the lack of focus is not readily apparent, neither is the negative impact that it causes. The point of a parabolic reflector in a headlight assembly is to focus and project light over distance, so while data from a fixed point is good, data to understand the projection performance over distance is much more illuminating.

So I did some distance testing at 42' for more data. Distance measured on the rack by a laser measure.



Intensity Focus
All my measurements prior were at peak intensity in the beam. As mentioned earlier, the peak intensity for the halogens and HIDs were near the cut off in the hot spot, but the LED was much further down in the pattern. When taking the measurements at 42' the peak intensity for the halogens and HIDs was still right near the cut off, where it should be to project light as far as possible, but the peak LED intensity was way down in the pattern, almost on the ground. This is what I refer too when I say the loss of focus shifts the pattern toward the vehicle. This is further evidence of 'lack of throw'. The pattern focus shifted from projecting peak intensity light outward for maximum distance projection to projecting peak intensity light downward. Often people suggest aiming their headlights up as a way to fix the problem. But if the peak pattern intensity is near the vertical center of the beam instead of the top where it should be, you would have to aim them way up to try and 'correct' the issue, but that places your cut offs sky high and would blind oncoming drivers and really not address the actual problem of lack of focus.

What I didn't like about only using the peak intensity measurement from the LED was that the data was then very misleading. All the other measurements were taken at the hot spot under the cut off where beam will be projecting furthest, but using peak intensity only the LED measurement was taken at a very different point in the beam and not at all a good indicator of projection distance. So I decided to keep the peak intensity measurement for the LED but also add a new measurement taken at where the hot spot should be just under the cut off, in the same area as the halogens and HIDs, and named it "LED Comparable" or "LED Comp" for short.

Visualizing your data is one of the best ways to quickly understand and identify trends in the data. So naturally I plotted the results of my measurements.

The large values of the initial HID data on the Y-axis made it difficult to analyze the smaller value distance distance data, so I used logarithmic scaling on the Y-axis to allow for better spreading of the data points for easier results analysis.



What immediately jumps out is that all the output intensity change over distance looks strikingly parallel, except the diverging LED, which drops in intensity quicker than the other light sources. Meaning the LEDs ability to project distance is less than that of the other light sources. Parabolic reflectors (inside the projector) project light by focusing the light in a hot spot to project it distance. The hot spot carries further than the rest of the pattern, which is why it is so important. You can see the "hot spot" of the LED (very loose use of the word) carries better than the LED Comp measurement that was taken up near the horizon where the hot spot should be. Meaning the part of the LED pattern responsible for distance projection does not project light as well as the part of the pattern pointing at the ground. Again, moving the light focus away from distance projection and shifting it toward the vehicle. Not something you want in a device who's purpose is to project light distance.

I always like to quantify things, so seeing the data makes me want to normalize a value for an easier numerical comparison of the projection efficiency. Dividing the second measurement by the first measurement will normalize out the value differences for higher or lower intensity light sources and just leave a percentage value showing how much of the original light measured at 18' was present when measured at 42'. This way the different light sources effectiveness to project distance can be compared, even though they greatly vary in intensity.




As indicated by the plot, the Halogen and HID sources are almost identical, meaning their ability to maintain intensity over distance is all about the same. But the LEDs are far lower.

Comparing projection
Since the first LED measurement is pointed at the ground, comparing the LED Comp vs Stock and using the D2/D1 value to normalize for output:

Stock .231 / LED Comp .145 = 1.593

Meaning that a stock halogen bulb in the 3rd gen H11 projector maintains intensity 59% more effectively than the LED over a distance of 24'.

Scientific proof that LEDs in halogen projectors do not project correctly and "lack throw", even when normalizing for output level differences.


Data crunching is fun!
Just for fun, lets look at a rough comparison of what it would take to match the lux intensity at the designed hot spot at 42' of the stock wattage GE performance halogen by increasing the luminosity of the LED.

GE 230 Lux /LED 85 Lux = 2.7x.

At 42' the GE bulbs are 2.7x brighter than the LED. So then the LED would need to produce 2.7x the output of what it does already to match. The LED is rated at 1750 stable lumens, already much higher than the 1300 lumen halogen. So:

1750 x 2.7 = 4725 lumens.

Most LED makers advertise raw lumens, which are typically near double the actual lumen output, it makes for more impressive sounding numbers. So:

4725 x 2 = 9450 raw lumens per bulb.

So if you increased the output of this LED to 9450 raw lumens, then it could match the output of the stock wattage performance halogen at 42'. But at 43' the halogen will be better because of the LED intensity over distance slope does not maintain intensity as well as the halogen, because of the lack of focus in using a bi-directional light in an housing designed for omni-directional light. Of course doing this does not address shifting the pattern toward the vehicle and the intense large blob of light this would place on the ground making it difficult to see distance anyway.

Some people may still be swayed by the marketers and still be lured into thinking that somehow a new LED will behave differently. The housing is designed for omni-directional light, LEDs are directional light, it doesn't work. You can build an LED brighter, smaller and make all sorts of claimed improvements but all the fundamental flaws are still there. You cannot change physics, unless the LED is as small as a halogen filament and emits light in an omni-directional manor like a wire filament (not opposing chip sets on a blade), it doesn't work. LEDs to not project correctly in an assembly designed for a halogen light source.

 

You should have no issues running a H9, it is only 15% higher power.

 

Awesome.

Edited for durrrr.

 

Not a typo, my initial measurement was at 18’, the second at 42’, the difference is 24’.

 

Haha yeah, you beat me to my edit.

 

I’ll update the original post with the additional data this evening.

 

For the GEs? Their life is not good, I believe 150 hours. Based on 200 hour bulbs lasting me about a year, I’d expect 9 months depending how you use your lights. An H9 will give you about 250 hours. A longer option is the Philips +100 bulb (not as good as the GEs) I believe at 450 hours.

The HIDs by comparison at 2000+ hours.

 

Guess I'll give them a try tonight. I currently have the XD Volt ballasts in my 4runner for about 4 years now(impressive). Although the XD 4300k bulbs are fairly new. I always didn't like the shadow it gives right in front of the projectors. Morimoto was the same. I am impress with the GE mega in my projector fogs. They put out a lot of light in a short distance. Haven't tried it in a headlight. But for the price of the H9 lunex. I wanted to give them a try and see if they do provide more useable light in a all weather condition. Oh and lets not forget the infamous HID light bounce. LoL