TacoBox Updates!

YES! The first ever advantage to be an AT!!!

If it makes you feel any better, Ill be installing one in my AT very soon.

 

My whole build is on hold until a resolution comes around. However, I feel like the chart on Marlin Crawler's website is incorrect with the 19 spline output shaft for the 2nd and 3rd gen MT's. I was just underneath a 2nd gen MT and it had 22 splines on the output shaft.

I need to pull my case and count mine, I'm just too busy to do it.

 

Sounds like a business opportunity if you can find the right machine shop.

 

AWESOME. Is this the 2nd gen in your avatar and if so, what year is it? Love the no bed look

Great question, ty for posting. Because you're familiar with a Manual Dual Ultimate this is very easy to visualize:

• For climbing, an Automatic in single 4.70:1 will feel similar to your manual in Dual Ultimate.
• For descending, an Automatic in Dual Ultimate will feel similar to your manual in single 4.70:1

Side note: The "Dual Ultimate" version of the TacoBox (what you have on order) is called a "TacoBox Supreme" (play on TacoBell's Burrito Supreme ). For other readers: TacoBox = 2.28:1 Dual Case Unit; TacoBox Supreme = 4.70:1 Dual Case Unit. The terms are synonymous.

Explained:

Climbing: Automatic vs Manual Dual Ultimate Setups

Under a load (ie. climbing), at idle speed the torque converter acts as a reduction unit providing roughly 2 to 2.5-times reduction (factors include ATF temp, weight, resistance...). This means that when the TacoBox is in Low (4.70:1) and the T/Case in High (1.00:1), it will feel similar to your manual Hilux in Double Low.

Detail in a steep climb
Automatic in TacoBox Single Low:
(Torque converter X TacoBox X t/case) = (2.00 (worst scenario) X 4.70 X 1.00) = 9.4
Manual in Double Low:
(Hilux-type manual Dual Ultimate) = (2.28 X 4.70) = 10.72.
Result:
Under very large loads they will feel nearly the same; The throttle response, finesse, and control of the auto will be very similar or identical to that of a manual.

Descending: Automatic vs Manual Dual Ultimate Setups

The converse, however, is also true in that without a load the torque converter becomes a multiplier of up to 0.4:1 (overdrive). This is why descending without brakes is so sketchy/scary with an automatic: The truck simply wants to run away with itself and the auto naturally wants to up-shift and build speed.

Detail in a steep descent
Automatic in TacoBox Single Low:
(Torque converter X TacoBox X t/case) = (0.4 (worst scenario) X 4.70 X 1.00) = 1.88
Manual in Single Low:
(Hilux-type manual Dual Ultimate) = (1.00:1 X 4.70) = 4.70.
Result:
We need moar!!! aaaahhhhhhhh

Side note: This is horrible for stock autos where this becomes a scary 1.028:1!!! (0.40:1 X 2.57:1) Every automatic out there is basically in HIGH RANGE on steep descents which is why you must ride your brakes non-stop continuously to limit speed

Fortunately, up until now we've only discussed the Automatic TacoBox in it's single low configuration. All you have to do in simply engage the stock t/case and wa-la:

Automatic + steep downhill descents + Dual Case TacoBox Supreme:
(0.4 (worst scenario) X 4.70 X 2.57) = 4.832:1 problem solved!!
Result:
It will feel nearly identical to your current truck on descents in Single 4.70:1

The only caveat with using both Low Ranges engaged with an Auto is that you'll have to work harder with the brakes to bring the vehicle to a complete stop since the amount of torque while idling in Drive with no throttle is insane: (1st gear Drive X TacoBox Low X T/Case Low) = (3.60:1 X 4.70:1 X 2.57:1) = 43.48:1. So without including your Ring & Pinion you're already lower than a stock Automatic lol. The truck can come to a stop and you can shift out of Drive, you just have to be more mindful and firm with the brakes. At any rate, you'll be moving so ridiculously slow (on par to that of a Manual setup with TRIPLE t/case) that you'll have all eternity to safely bring the truck to a stop

Here is a TacoBox Supreme demo of a 4-liter Automatic in the following configuration:
Automatic Transmission: 3rd gear
TacoBox: Low (4.70:1)
T/Case: Low (2.57:1)
Resultant Ratio: 91:1 (very similar to your Manual Hilux in 1st gear + single 4.70:1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFPCd9oVx7g

Regards,
BigMike

 

So much awesomeness and wow for this post! Im pumped!

That is actually my 80s truck. I call it my 80s because, as they all do, it has parts from nearly every year pretacoma out there. I think the cab (Im not sure because that is my 3rd cab) is actually a 94 2WD so it has a tendency to throw people off.

And thanks for clarifying my order. I thought I remembered for me, the 4.7 was the only option so I never specified. After reading your earlier posts I was scared I had not ordered the 4.7. Glad to hear I didnt screw up. I love gears! 5.29s going in the chunks very very soon as well.

Now, install questions: As far as xmembers go, I have looked on your website and havent found exactly what I think I was looking for. Seems like I read somewhere you have options. I assume the TacoBox Supreme will line up with the factory cross member. in order to support the factory case now being so far back, I intended to weld a new xmember in with a case mount on top. I havent gotten into this trucks underside, yet, so I am not sure. Does the factory case use the same old mounts that Yota has used forever? i.e. will one of the HD mounts that you sell bolted to my new xmember mate up to my factory case? That would certainly be convenient, but I feel like it might be too convenient.

Only other question I have off the top of my head is for cutting the hump..... but we can hold off on that until closer to time.

Thanks for all the info!

 

Note for my previous reply: I got interrupted 100+ times here at work while composing and had to edit numerous times to get my thoughts straight

Thank you for the question. The answer is that those have always been left up to the installer. We do have plans to *finally* update our instructions hopefully sometime this summer, but normally experienced installers are the ones doing the job.

Wiring
For wiring, it is a process of cutting and manually lengthening each wire. Granted, this was a piece of cake in the past where we only had 1 wire for early and 2 wires for late model Hilux pickups and 4Runners (4WD light indicator), whereas today we have electronic shift solenoids that can have as many as I believe 11 in AWD Sequoia, GX470, and V8 4Runner installations. For a 3rd gen V6 (pictured) this is a matter of lengthening 9 wires about 10-inches and then covering with new wire loom. (For my setup I lengthened them about 20-inches since I am running Triple Transfer Cases (no one needs to do this)):



Shifter
The Shifter setup is a currently custom built to the customer's shifter location/preferences. It can be made very nice, it just takes a bit more time and effort. Our No.1 TacoBox installed is Rock Solid Toys in SoCal (RST, http://rocksolidtoys.com) and they do a really nice job on the shifter. Here are a couple photos RST has installed into 2nd gen Auto & Manual and I have photos from 3rd gen Installs, also both Auto & Manual, but I can't find them at the moment but will reply back once I do.

As you can see the automatic setup requires modifying the center console at the expense of sacrificing either your coin slot or alternatively cup holder, and the manual is much less intrusive and we're able to mount the shifter in the same area as the transmission. We have looked into a remote Cable-type shifter or push-pull, but it's been a while and we need to revisit this to try to make shifter installs more straight-forward.



Driveline
Traditionally speaking, driveline modification has also been a custom/user-based component due to the wide differences in leaf springs, lift setups, and pinion angle change resulting in a wide range of differing driveshaft lengths. However, because the majority of TacoBox installs are into IFS trucks (static front shaft) with rear carrier bearings (static rear first half-shaft), we do have a set/known starting reference length that could be used to offer drivelines. This is something we have not done yet in terms of product offering.

In the good ol' days the installer would have to take a tape measure post-install to figure out the exact new F&R shaft length, but now because these components are a known static length, the installer can send his or her drive lines to a drive line shop pre-install to save time and installation issues.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
BigMike

 

Until I find the additional 3rd gen TacoBox install shifter photos, here is my 3rd gen/2016/3.5L V6 setup however it is very unique due to having three Low Ranges
First shifter along side transmission is a 2.28:1 MC08 Hilux-type Unit
Second shifter in cup holder is a 4.70:1 TacoBox Supreme Unit
Third shifter.....doesn't exist I decided to keep my electronic shifter (located on the dash) which so far has not given me any grief (I avoid sand and mud because this is a Rock Crawler)

At the end of the day I was able to have Triples while retaining two cup holders





Regards,
BigMike

 

That short shaft to carrier bearing on the rear is going to make that part super nice and easy.

 

What is the status on the 3rd gen MT taco box? I keep asking but no one has an answer. I'm hoping that maybe you can shed some light on this!

 

Hey Trident904, thank you for your reply.

We are currently working on a partial TacoBox redesign that is needed for all 6MT and some 2nd gen 5MT applications. We are using my Tacoma for a few more tests before we commit the new design (I'll be driving it 3,400 miles again to Texas in May) after which we should be ready to resume manufacturing for manual applications.

We will post updates for this as soon as we can

Regards,
BigMike

 

Yessir you've got it all correct! The TacoBox includes the option of adding a second t/case mount which helps prolong the life of engine mounts. This is not required but is recommended. As for offering a crossmember, we see the market is fully saturated with full-length skids so we don't want to touch that.

Because I have proper gearing for Rock Crawling, I am not running any skids at all, not even a front skid. I do of course contact and scratch my underbelly, and I am both (1) not-concerned because I am going slow enough to cause only cosmetic damage and (2) I am concerned that we have such little precious ground clearance under these huge trucks it's ridiculous how anyone can even add skids and then try to do highly technical trails without being hug up and high centered on hard lines. For example I don't know of many IFS rigs doing technical Rock Crawling with 40" tires like myself and yet even with 40" tires I often run out of underbelly ground clearance. The facts are undeniable: These trucks are so large that for the same height and sized tires, they have at minimum 9-inches less ground clearance than a 1st gen Hilux. Same over height, same size tires. Nine inches less ground clearance. Un----believable.

So for (2) I am going to *eventually* design a proper Rock Crawling Tacoma Cross-member that gains AT LEAST half a foot of underbelly ground clearance and incorporates a full-length skid ......it's just that it's wayy down on my priority list at the moment. My truck is currently at 70% of my vision and by this summer it will be in the 90-percentile range which means the time for doing silly things like light bars and skids will be nigh! This Rock Crawling Tacoma Cross-member, however, will require permanent frame modifications due to how Toyota integrated the t/case skid plate which is not the same as your 3rd gen Pickup. More on this later.

Reference Images:

When I had our Dual Case TacoBox installed, everything fit as designed with zero modifications to the factory crossmember and exhaust cross-over pipe.



The same also applied for later when I switched to Triples. No cross-member or exhaust modification needed:



...but of course that cross-over pipe is really dumb so I did a proper custom cat-back exhaust with dual-in single-out

$196 MagnaFlow 12580 : 2.5"/2.25" Inlet/Outlet, 5x11x22" Oval, Stainless Steel, Satin Finish

MagnaFlow 12580 muffler which I am very pleased with:



Lastly, the Triple setup added ~40 lbs to the drivetrain so running Dual T/Case mounts was only natural since the TacoBox has the mounting provision for this just begging to be used, and I did so doing the same thing which I think you have in mind. It was very easy and also effective. For me I could even install a Third t/case mount as well but I don't think it's needed:

Cutting the hole, at least for my 3rd gen AC was more difficult than in older trucks due to the cab having multiple layers that are also on different planes. I broke a drill bit getting the hole saw positioned just right but overall it wasn't too bad! Have a small vacuum handy because those shavings fly all over



Regards,
BigMike

 

Awesome. Thanks!

 

Look forward to good news on this. Was starting to look into going Atlas but would prefer to go with a TacoBox Supreme!

 

Found one image I was looking for, and as promised here is the picture of our TacoBox in a 2017 3rd gen manual by Rock Solid Toys (https://www.rocksolidtoys.com, Southern California). Please note that RST is helping with a set number of manual installs and is not doing any more 2005+ 6cyl manual applications until further notice.

Manuals are definitely the cleanest to install and truly looks like they came this way from the factory!



Shifting the TacoBox is preformed at speeds 5 MPH or less and is a simple 3-position linear pattern as follows:

• Straight back: High Range
  • Ratio: 1.00:1
  • Torque enters and exists at the same rate and the TacoBox is bypassed
  • Energy loss < 1%
    • You're carrying an extra ~ 50 lbs with two shafts freely spinning in gear oil
    • Fuel economy/MPG change is unmeasurable
  • City and Highway operation is 100% like stock
  • The truck operates 100% like factory as if the TacoBox did not exist
  • You may engage factory Low Range at any time and be just like any other Taco on the trail
  • All electronics (A-TRAC/Auto LSD/Crawl Control/ABS/Cruise Control/Traction Control/etc) are oblivious to the presence of the TacoBox

• Straight forward one-click (middle position): Neutral
  • Now electronic shift setups have a neutral t/case position which may be used for flat towing!
  • Automatic owners can now engage a neutral gear without requiring your key in the ON position and foot on the brake
    • Example: Pushing your truck around in your garage

• Straight forward a final click (forward position): Low Range
  • An additional 2.28:1 or 4.70:1 Reduction which may be used at any time independent of your transmission or transfer case's position
  • This means you can have a 2WD Low Range!
    • Very useful for maneuvering your truck with aired down tires in a camp ground as you can do this in low range but without the front end bucking and hindering sharp turns due to the front & rear axles binding/fighting each other
    • Very useful if you park on hills, as you can quickly & easily engage Low Range (without waiting for beeps and blinking dash lights) to greatly magnify engine compression braking making it (1) impossible for gravity to move it (traction limited) and (2) for automatic owners greatly reduce the load to and extend the life of your Parking position pawl (the mechanism inside your auto that holds your truck in park)
      
    • Play tricks on your friends
    • Discourage Valet Drivers from going Ferris Bueller on you
      
    • Teach your wife or kids how to drive stick shift without smoking your clutch and killing your starter
      
    • If someone steals your truck you can chase it down by foot
    • Some manual customers have added a hook and padlock to physically lock the truck into Reverse transmission gear + Crawl Box Low Range rendering the truck highly impractical to steal (see discussion on Marlin Crawler's forum [replies #16 & 18])

I'll post updates for all my gear jam'n brothers out there as soon as possible. Thanks

BigMike

 

do I need to order a shifter with this or is the 3.4L 5 speed taco box ready to go and all I need to do is cut the floor and modify the driveshafts? @BigMike

 

I’m so confused, isn’t mikes truck a MT? If the issue is with the MT, how’s he running the taco-box? Or did he swap the trans?

 

What I was told was that a 21 spline coupler was used but can’t get anyone to confirm thus

 

You can’t just buy the auto version of the taco box and have someone Fab something up?

 

https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=100408.msg1142343#msg1142343

"When changing to the smaller 23-spline automatic-transmission-type input we must also change to it's matching t/case nose cone. So here we have automatic input and nose cone installed onto my manual t/case:"

 

If it were that easy, yes.