Extremely interesting interview with Mike Sweers.

I think a lot of owners are unhappy with their Tacoma’s performance. I understand the physics behind it all pertaining to MPG. Americans like their Torque and HP, there is no denying that. Sales numbers are meaningless at this point. Truck and SUV numbers have climbed drastically. The reason Tacoma sales have increased as well is because of the redesign finally after 10 years and the fact that it’s a decent pickup for the price. Go look at the prices of similar featured fullsized trucks. You’ll find a sport or OR would be comparable to a fullsized that is around 45k average. So at this point 35k maybe doesn’t seem to bad, since most people only use their trucks for small hauling (like moving a sofa, or picking up a few bags of mulch). Factor that in with most buyers having 3k average in negative equity and a Toyota and the price point seems like a pretty decent choice. Now look at the Tacoma resale value. Best there is. Only another smart move. So I think for a lot of buyer it’s just something that makes sense. When the 3rd gen released there wasn’t much competition at all. Only real competition was the twins. Now other are stepping up to the plate. even though initially I though Ford was gonna take back the crown with the ranger, I think they failed to deliver. Basically carrying over the global ranger. I feel like they just rushed to get it to market. There’s still some competition coming though. Although the fullsized market has been really soft the last several months with bad lease deals and not a ton of incentives. That will only help drive the midsize market for now. But once they can’t move those units and they are giving 10k in rebates you’ll see the midsize market take a hit. Continued sales will depend on the economy. Gas prices have been on the rise. These mid sized vehicles aren’t getting much, if any better than some full sized trucks. The biggest selling point is the price point, but if they start putting big incentives on a full sized a lot of buyers will go that route.

Also there are plenty of second gen owners who claim they wouldn’t buy a 3rd gen and plenty of 3rd gen owners who claim they wouldn’t buy another. I can honestly say I don’t think I’d buy another. I loved my 1st gen but my 3rd gen just leaves me with something to desire. I wanted another F150 but I was going through a divorce at the time and just wanted a cheaper payment. Like most owners I mainly just use my truck to commute to and from work. Just about everything I have ever done with my fullsized I could do with my Tacoma. So I figured why not downgrade for the time being. Before I left the auto industry all the forecast and models show a big sales dive coming. Basically it’s a wave pattern that happens every 10 years or so. They predicted last year the was start of the down turn. Last years numbers turned out to be well, but this year is doesn’t seem to be hot. So maybe this is the year of the turn. And it will probably last a few years. The future is pretty unknown, but never in history have buyers been so upside down. Nor have vehicles costed as much as some peoples homes. Best believe that played a role in recent Tacoma sales

 

Dude I wish I was getting 19. I average between 16-17.5. It’s pretty pathetic. Some trips it will show 20-21 but tank average is never better than 17-18. Usually in the winter it’s around 16 or lower and summer around 17.5-17.8.

Any grade changes or headwind and the thing just hunts and bounces around gears. Honestly makes me hate driving it. It’s not even a comfortable drive, it’s ridgid and bouncy. It is fun if you take it off-road. That’s one thing I can say about the truck. I wanna like it but just isn’t doing it for me. I did a balloon on the truck and it’s due in sept. I might just dump it. Thinking about picking up a used civic or corolla or something and drive it for a year. My daughter is turning 15 in June. Plan would be to just give her that for her sweet 16 and I’m the mean time save money and buy a new full-sized afterwards. Maybe even a raptor if I can land a new job at work.

 

“Sales numbers are meaningless”. I don’t agree at all. People are not going to keep buying an expensive, stupid truck everyone hates year after year after year. We’ve had 4 years of the 3rd Gen. That is more than enough time for word to get out it sucks ass, but people just keep buying more and more and more and more of them. That’s not just because there is no competition, or the “segment is growing”. It is because it is an extremely successful design in the eyes of the general public (not in the eyes of enthusiast forum complainers, clearly). Like it or not, it is the most popular truck ever produced by Toyota, and according to the video, may eclipse Camry sales next year in North America.

You just can’t credibly argue against the numbers any more, after so much time has passed.

I guess I just don’t believe that many people are that stupid, and also I don’t consider myself a total moron either for liking my Taco. It’s an awesome vehicle. I guess I’m just one of the 800,000 people who like my 3G Taco, and not one of the couple hundred here on TW who can’t stand it.

 

All car sales are down, dramatically. As I already stated the SUV and truck market is the small car market of the 90s. The RAV4 is their biggest seller right now I believe. And Honda’s is the CRV. For the past 15-20 years is always been the Camry and Corolla and accord and civic, for Toyota and Civic. When I said sales numbers are meaningless I didn’t completely mean it that way. Obviously what’s selling is what’s selling. But sometimes people are pushed into a certain category. I’ve seen lots of people come into our dealerships expecting one thing and leaving with another. Sometimes they are happy and other times not so much. With the suv and truck market being so hot that’s what they are building. When you build units you need to move them and you’re going to usually have better incentives to do so. Most people lease new vehicles. Because they can’t afford the payment to buy them and they want a new vehicle every few years. Lease are almost always better on vehicles that they build a lot of and need to move. Now granted they do offer big incentives on stuff that isn’t selling very well at certain times. But usually those incentives only benefit buyers who purchase the vehicles fully. With most people leasing they can’t take advantage of the low interest financing. Although the rebates to help lease rates a bit, typically these are on last years remaining models and good lease deals are on the current models. Anyways there are limited options for some buyers. There aren’t to many fullsized cars on the market now, atleast not compared to 8-10 years ago when some of these people purchased their last car. So a lot of people come in and see the current prices and get sticker shocked. So they either down size to a smaller vehicle or maybe they get a good deal/lease of a current compact suv or crossover or something. They payment is right so they go with it instead.

Tacoma buyers are pretty loyal. Now doubt about it. In fact most truck buyers are brand loyal. Especially when it comes to domestics. Foreign not as much. A lot of sales I would presume are older Tacoma buyers wanting/needing an upgrade. Tacoma May be known for their reliability/dependability but they are also known for their unreliability/undependability. I say that because anyone who knows Tacoma knows of the huge frame rust/rot problems. It’s a big problem for most owners in the salt belt. A lot of Tacoma’s were bought back. A lot had frames sprayed and replaced. And a lot missed their deadline or got screwed over. Some it probably left a bad taste in their mouth and they won’t come back to Tacoma. And other may have dumped their trucks to get a newer Tacoma to get away from the rust issue. I’m sure that played into the sales boost. Also not having a new generation in 11 years was a big boost. There are a ton of things that can explain the jump in sales but the biggest is probably the market shift. However gas prices are starting to raise again. If they continue to rise the market can easily shift to small cars again or finally give the EV market the take over its been waiting for. Gas prices are the one thing that can kill the trend and the auto business at this current moment. They are finally making big profits again and for them to take losses on all the bigger trucks and suvs they are currently building and having to design, retool and release smaller vehicles again would be a huge blow to the industry. Working in a tire manufacturing plant now, the entire focus is on passenger suv/ light truck. Obviously the same focus as what the auto manufacturers are focused on and building. With basically the same predictions and trends. You see how one industry impacts the other.

I’m glad you like your Tacoma. I mean you should. Pretty much everyone buys something because they like it. I don’t hate mine, I just don’t love it. I don’t have the same love for it that I did my first gen. But I do love the payment. It’s not the worst vehicle I ever owned. I just feel it could be better than what it is. There is a lot of potential and yet I feel a lot of disappointment. I’m just happy I’m not the only one who feels this way. There are plenty here alone. And with how many used ones I see around for sale it says something about real world figures too. Time will really tell, and it’ll be interesting to see how it all plays a role with the resale values as well. It also begs to question, since so many owners here seem to go with the 4 runner, if/once they release the next gen of that, if that will have the same complaints, since it will probably have the same or similar powertrain.

 

Good points.

The only point I will add, is people who trade in their Tacoma for a happy life in a 4Runner, by definition, were in the wrong vehicle to begin with, with perhaps the wrong set of expectations. I don’t know why an SUV and a pickup truck are constantly compared to each other. They have different uses in my mind, but I get it that a lot of Tacoma owners are just using the truck as a commuter vehicle. Those people might actually be better going to a Camry. I also own a 2015 Camry and that is an awesome sedan. Not a single complaint about it. Would be way better than a 4Runner or a Tacoma as a commuter.

 

I came to a Tacoma from a 4Runner. Life changes, kids grew up. Now to a Tundra, for towing and power. Again, life changes.
All are good vehicles but they are really not comparable to cross shop. Big differences between the three.

 

I know it really accounts for fuck all sales wise, but the reverse gear choice in the RC-62F is DUMB. What was the reason for that lol? Please tell me how the majority of customers wanted to go faster in reverse than in 1st.

 

"Slightly more complex"? SLIGHTLY?
Lol, all I have to do is park on level ground, remove the filler plug and finger blast the hole. Did it come out wet? Yep, all good.
Try that with the A/T. If you've not seen it, there's a Weber Auto vid on checking Toyota A/T fluid level "the right way". Let's just say it involves applying a vacuum to the tranny, special tools, and a 12 page procedure! Anyway, I agree that removing the dipstick was probably a better way to keep the average owner from grenading the thing.

 

381 HP V8.
How are u getting that extra 19HP?
Wait... did you tune it? Mat does that too now.

 

So, now that all you smart ppl are in here... why isn't the M/T geared taller in 6th? My EPA highway numbers are lower than the A/T, but there's really no reason for that if it's just gearing. Don't give me this shit about the auto can shift way more efficiently than an ape. Highway. As in, staying in the same gear for a while. I mean, 5th is only a coupla hundred RPM higher the way it is now. Almost no point to it.

 

True. But in my area with harsh winters trucks and suv’s make a ton of sense for daily commuters. Subaru’s are a good second choice as the all time AWD is great in the snow. A Camry not so much. Not that it can’t be used, but the bigger vehicles with AWD/4x4 are a much better choice. Not sure exactly where you reside but here trucks/suv are like 6/1 compared to cars. And that’s only gonna continue to rise as long as the market allows. Besides the few times hauling couches, appliances, mattresses, or a pallet of shingles, and cement I could probably get away with owning a 4R or something similar. In fact if I had more room for a small trailer this might even be a batter choice in some regards. I think that’s the same scenario most of these other people have as well. Do a few things around the house that may require the room/capacity that a truck has, but only needed a few times a year. Rental may be an option but it’s much easier to just grab your keys and do what you gotta do, then go down to a rental agency and hope something is available and do the paperwork and what not. Plus rentals don’t have hitched so no go for towing if needed. Maybe the Home Depot truck you can rent does? Anyways you get the point. Owning a truck has some perks. As long as you don’t have a bunch of friends who are always asking you for help moving

 

Didn’t even realize you switched to a Tundra. What exactly are you towing? Thought the Tacoma had all the power you needed? Lol

 

I get about this gas mileage, but that's with 63lb tires on it. If you can't get better in stock trim, it's your driving habits. I could milk 24mpgs stock..... 21mpgs was easy.

 

Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed the interview and gained a lot of insight on the various factors driving the engineering decisions being made.

Btw, I want his jacket!

 

Also, let's not forget the pressure brought by the EPA WRT fuel economy. CAFE and whatnot.
To simply say that the potential buyer wanted a 2mpg bump over all else and that's what drove this design exclusively is a bit misleading (ie not the whole truth). The 2nd Gen was selling quite well with it's diesel-like LS V8 smoking (but albeit a bit more thirsty) 4.0.

 

I get your point and while I agree with you overall, that's NOT a fair comparison.

 

Lol I agree. And we all know the 5.7 get shit for fuel economy. Average is around 14 mpg

 

Our common ground- waiting to see what the 4th Gen might bring....

 

You want a turbo 4cyl? Ew

 

I doubt it would be a turbo 4 cyl. However they may have that option. I’d take it over this 3.5 if it had better throttle response and torque. Hell I’d welcome a complete EV if it had decent range. wouldn’t be any low end/torque complaints then