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I never thought about that.... I thought it still stayed with the seller up until the nics approval came back since the transaction hasn't been fully completed. Doesnt the buyer have to sign one more time at the time of pickup? It's been a while since I bought a gun. Pretty much back when private sales where.......... Private.

 

Shouldn’t be an issue if the seller gets paid at the first time they meet. It’s the FFL’s fun now and their problem what they do with it. Unless you are correct in which case, no issue either

 

As @scollins pointed out, my gun law/protocol is a little rusty... but when I sold (traded for a winch) a pistol a year ago (May 29th 2018), all I had to do was sign paper work to "drop off" the gun with the FFL. I was never contacted after that. To my knowledge, somewhere between 1 to 14 days, the buyer when and picked up their gun on their own.

 

And you got paid on the spot right? So anything that happens after that ain’t your worry

 

Correct!

 

For $100-$200 you Won’t get a decent trailer, but you can get a decent frame and title. Then buy a new axle, rims and tires to match the truck, then send it down to Snell Works(@JimSnell) for some sides and crossbars. I figured doing it this way would allow more customization for less $$

But if you also want to take the tent off and have a utility trailer, then it makes good sense. FWIW I bought a summit trailer last year from olympic trailer in Olympia and it’s been great, held up to a lot of rock and concrete hauling last summer. Paid $1,700 for a 6x12 single axle with twin tailgates that pull off to become ramps. Build quality is excellent, all the wiring is ran inside the frame so no wire looms to catch and rip off

 

Actually, it is his job to vet a buyer. His little technique is extremely common, as in every person I know working in that industry, does that. Or they either flat out refuse to transfer up front, or specifically ask the atf to delay or deny.

 

@scollins is good people and him vetting a buyer not only covers his ass but makes sure dipshits that shouldn't have guns don't get them. I'm sure he wont lose any sleep if you go through someone else, but he gets as much of my business as I can give him.

 

Yes, I'm been an FFL for 11 years now. I'd be happy to have not have you as a customer from the sounds of it. Hot Gates Armory is my business.

And yes it absolutely is my job to vet a buyer. What do you think the entire process is? Collecting the information on the 4473, the state ATP, verifying your government issued ID, contacting NICS to run the background check, looking for audible and visual clues that the transaction might be a straw purchase, etc. etc. That's a WHOLE lot of vetting. The entire time you are filling out the form, chatting about guns, laws, the weather, Tacomas, etc. I'm evaluating you.

You want to know the FFLs that get into deep shit with the government about firearm sales? The ones that take your approach to it. They usually show up in the news as a source of many "crime guns."

And your idea that an FFL would get sued in small claims court because it becomes "contract law" is just laughable. An FFL actually has more liability if they release a firearm with no response, and that firearm winds up becoming a problem down the road (buyer winds up being prohibited, commits a crime, etc.) . If you** always get a "Delay" followed by "Open/No Resolution", I'd suggest you contact the FBI to figure out why exactly. It means there is something in their system, associated with you, that is potentially negative. If it isn't legitimate, why not put in the effort to get it cleared up?

I've had customers that don't get a response back after the 3 day time limit the FBI is under to provide a response. I'm still obligated to follow the 10 business day wait at a minimum after that. Then it becomes MY DISCRETION to proceed or not. Most guys I'll release to because I've had a chance to get to know them. The one time that I didn't feel comfortable doing it? Yeah, that one came back with a "Deny" response after 5 days because of a felony conviction in another state. This was prior to Washington State law making it 10 business days. But hey, I shouldn't have been "playing such a dumb game" right? I should have released it as soon as I could have, and said "not my problem!"


**general you again, not YOU specifically.

 

No, their job is done if they’ve made sure a background check is being done. They have no say in who can own a firearm and who cannot.
And again, if they wanna take that stand that’s weak but fine I guess provided they don’t pocket the buyers money and return all of it. Of course this all assuming the results are just delayed, not denied. As far as I know you can’t specifically ask the FBI to make a definitive decision. They do whatever they fuggin feel like. Presumably they use it as a tactic to intimidate FFL’s into believing they can expose themselves to liability potentially even though they cannot. The law is on their side. Never heard of a case where the FBI came back after the time ran out with a denial and then tried to nail the FFL. Have you?

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the guy thats been doing it for 11 years and has a federal license to do so knows more about it than you.

 

He probably does! Still, he is not the authority to decide who may own firearms. Just like Mac Donald’s can refuse to sell me a cheeseburger he is also perfectly within his rights to refuse to do business with anyone. In which case i believe the right thing to do is not take people’s money.

@scollins thanks for the hypothesizing. The “negative” thing about me is I’m not a citizen and as far as clearing that up... yeah, maybe one day lol. Not really in a rush

 

Additionally, a seller has a right to refuse to service anyone with the exceptions of race, religion, or sexual preference.
I appreciate a seller using sound judgement and ethics to help prevent the wrong person from obtaining a firearm.
Although, by a small margin, that does reduces the likelihood that I'll have to neutralize a nut job. That's good in my book.

 

Being a citizen or not is not a condition of buying a firearm here. If you have a "green card" (i.e. Permanent Resident), you can buy a firearm. I just transferred one the other day to a non-citizen green card holder. You'll get a delay (I've never had one go to Proceed instantly), but it should clear before the 30 days is up. You have to bring your card with you, as the A# has to be recorded on the form, and transmitted as part of the NICS check.

If you here as a "non-immigrant alien", then you need a license from the state (Alien Firearms License) and must meet other qualifications (hunting license, etc.)

 

There's a lot of things that the FFL might see that need to be accounted for, such as possible drug use, erratic behavior, or threatening behavior. It's part of why they are vetted so thoroughly themselves.

 

This is a good point but then why not stop right there? Why go through the hassle of the paperwork and collect fees?

 

Now it’s 30 days?? Last couple times (in King County) FFL called me after 2-3 weeks and said they haven’t heard back but times up and I can come pick up. Definitely never took 30 days. Never heard from them after that either. As stated earlier I got a CPL too now but guess that won’t matter much anymore either after 7/1 based on your earlier post

 

I thought there was no fee if denied... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

You and me both. I should clarify I'm a permanent resident alien, which are legally allowed to own firearms. I always get a delay from nics, just become used to it by now. I've been stopped and had my info ran while out hunting by gamies and one other time by the sheriff, no one batted an eye and ended the encounter with have a good rest of your day. Afaik the delay is just to ensure I'm not associated with the IRA and running guns to Ireland.

 

Not sure! Well I wouldn’t expect the FFL to work for free and people who get denied probably should have known that was coming. I was referring to the situations where it’s undetermined and remains that way